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  3. uh oh ... hack the airplane ?

uh oh ... hack the airplane ?

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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    BillWoodruff
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    "Cyber security researcher Ruben Santamarta says he has figured out how to hack the satellite communications equipment on passenger jets through their WiFi and inflight entertainment systems - a claim that, if confirmed, could prompt a review of aircraft security." [^]

    “I have diligently numbered the days of pure and genuine happiness which have fallen to my lot: They amount to 14.” Abd-Ar Rahman III, Caliph of Cordoba, circa 950CE.

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    • B BillWoodruff

      "Cyber security researcher Ruben Santamarta says he has figured out how to hack the satellite communications equipment on passenger jets through their WiFi and inflight entertainment systems - a claim that, if confirmed, could prompt a review of aircraft security." [^]

      “I have diligently numbered the days of pure and genuine happiness which have fallen to my lot: They amount to 14.” Abd-Ar Rahman III, Caliph of Cordoba, circa 950CE.

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      S Offline
      Simon ORiordan from UK
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Satellite comms? Wow. Fundamental. Not. My first flight as a twelve year old was on a Boeing 720 to Canada. We didn't have no stinking satellite. When the crew invited me onto the fight deck, they showed me frost on the side window from the -50 degree air, and how the navigator used the stars through a viewing dome in the roof. Flight controls have come a long way since then; they are 'By Wire', so electric, but they won't be connected to any other system except the batteries and their own, dedicated, presumably hard-embedded computing. The batteries which take on the role of old hydraulic accumulators. On the other hand....are we talking about modern engineers?:~

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      • S Simon ORiordan from UK

        Satellite comms? Wow. Fundamental. Not. My first flight as a twelve year old was on a Boeing 720 to Canada. We didn't have no stinking satellite. When the crew invited me onto the fight deck, they showed me frost on the side window from the -50 degree air, and how the navigator used the stars through a viewing dome in the roof. Flight controls have come a long way since then; they are 'By Wire', so electric, but they won't be connected to any other system except the batteries and their own, dedicated, presumably hard-embedded computing. The batteries which take on the role of old hydraulic accumulators. On the other hand....are we talking about modern engineers?:~

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        ScottM1
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Agreed, I doubt that the in flight entertainment system would be connected to the throttle and steering yoke. If it was the navigation equipment that he'd hacked into then I could see the potential problem but other than singing "this is the song that will get on your nerves" over the comms there isn't a right lot anybody can do with this.

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        • S ScottM1

          Agreed, I doubt that the in flight entertainment system would be connected to the throttle and steering yoke. If it was the navigation equipment that he'd hacked into then I could see the potential problem but other than singing "this is the song that will get on your nerves" over the comms there isn't a right lot anybody can do with this.

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          chriselst
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Have you never seen Die Hard 2? The could change what ground level was!

          Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.

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          • C chriselst

            Have you never seen Die Hard 2? The could change what ground level was!

            Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.

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            ScottM1
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            That's actually exactly what I was thinking of when I mentioned the navigation equipment :laugh:

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            • C chriselst

              Have you never seen Die Hard 2? The could change what ground level was!

              Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.

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              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              That's the worst that could happen.. There you are sipping your drink while watching "Die Hard 2" on your in-flight screen when all of a sudden, everyone's film gets changed to "Love Actually" on repeat, for the full duration of the flight. Still, better than being blown up isn't it? :confused:

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              • L Lost User

                That's the worst that could happen.. There you are sipping your drink while watching "Die Hard 2" on your in-flight screen when all of a sudden, everyone's film gets changed to "Love Actually" on repeat, for the full duration of the flight. Still, better than being blown up isn't it? :confused:

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                SomeGuyThatIsMe
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Yes, but not by much.

                Please remember to rate helpful or unhelpful answers, it lets us and people reading the forums know if our answers are any good.

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                • S Simon ORiordan from UK

                  Satellite comms? Wow. Fundamental. Not. My first flight as a twelve year old was on a Boeing 720 to Canada. We didn't have no stinking satellite. When the crew invited me onto the fight deck, they showed me frost on the side window from the -50 degree air, and how the navigator used the stars through a viewing dome in the roof. Flight controls have come a long way since then; they are 'By Wire', so electric, but they won't be connected to any other system except the batteries and their own, dedicated, presumably hard-embedded computing. The batteries which take on the role of old hydraulic accumulators. On the other hand....are we talking about modern engineers?:~

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                  caposada
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote: When the crew invited me onto the fight deck, they showed me frost on the side window from the -50 degree air, and how the navigator used the stars through a viewing dome in the roof. Sorry, that just reminded me of this

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                  • S SomeGuyThatIsMe

                    Yes, but not by much.

                    Please remember to rate helpful or unhelpful answers, it lets us and people reading the forums know if our answers are any good.

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                    L Offline
                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Just trying to think what would be the worst terrorist weapon? Hitch, The Wedding Planner, Bridget Jones' Diary 2..? X|

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                    • C caposada

                      Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote: When the crew invited me onto the fight deck, they showed me frost on the side window from the -50 degree air, and how the navigator used the stars through a viewing dome in the roof. Sorry, that just reminded me of this

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                      Simon ORiordan from UK
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      I was waiting for one of you to spot that. Well done that man.

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                      • L Lost User

                        Just trying to think what would be the worst terrorist weapon? Hitch, The Wedding Planner, Bridget Jones' Diary 2..? X|

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                        Simon ORiordan from UK
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Sister Act 2. Any new Star Wars. :doh:

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                        • S Simon ORiordan from UK

                          Sister Act 2. Any new Star Wars. :doh:

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                          L Offline
                          Lost User
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Weapons of Mass Irritation

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • S Simon ORiordan from UK

                            Satellite comms? Wow. Fundamental. Not. My first flight as a twelve year old was on a Boeing 720 to Canada. We didn't have no stinking satellite. When the crew invited me onto the fight deck, they showed me frost on the side window from the -50 degree air, and how the navigator used the stars through a viewing dome in the roof. Flight controls have come a long way since then; they are 'By Wire', so electric, but they won't be connected to any other system except the batteries and their own, dedicated, presumably hard-embedded computing. The batteries which take on the role of old hydraulic accumulators. On the other hand....are we talking about modern engineers?:~

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                            Stuart Dootson
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:

                            Flight controls have come a long way since then; they are 'By Wire', so electric, but they won't be connected to any other system except the batteries and their own, dedicated, presumably hard-embedded computing.

                            Mmmmm - possibly not... The yoke & throttles are just the user interface, really - the flight control system has overall control of an airliner's attitude, altitude and speed, so needs to be able to command the control surfaces, the engines...all of the aircraft systems, really. Airliners these days have (slightly modified) ethernet connecting all these mission-critical systems, in order that they can communicate. That network is separated from the cabin network systems, although I'm not sure if the separation is via an air-gap or by using appropriately filtering switches - you'd hope an air-gap... Oh - and they don't tend to use batteries either - power comes from the engines or (if they're not running) an APU[^].

                            Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!

                            S 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • B BillWoodruff

                              "Cyber security researcher Ruben Santamarta says he has figured out how to hack the satellite communications equipment on passenger jets through their WiFi and inflight entertainment systems - a claim that, if confirmed, could prompt a review of aircraft security." [^]

                              “I have diligently numbered the days of pure and genuine happiness which have fallen to my lot: They amount to 14.” Abd-Ar Rahman III, Caliph of Cordoba, circa 950CE.

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                              patbob
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              This sounds a lot like what this guy demonstrated a year ago[^]. So the news here probably isn't that its possible, but that someone else has done it.

                              We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

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                              • B BillWoodruff

                                "Cyber security researcher Ruben Santamarta says he has figured out how to hack the satellite communications equipment on passenger jets through their WiFi and inflight entertainment systems - a claim that, if confirmed, could prompt a review of aircraft security." [^]

                                “I have diligently numbered the days of pure and genuine happiness which have fallen to my lot: They amount to 14.” Abd-Ar Rahman III, Caliph of Cordoba, circa 950CE.

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                                SoMad
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Quote:

                                Hughes spokeswoman Judy Blake said hardcoded credentials were "a necessary" feature for customer service. The worst a hacker could do is to disable the communication link, she said.

                                :~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~

                                "When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty

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                                • C chriselst

                                  Have you never seen Die Hard 2? The could change what ground level was!

                                  Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.

                                  O Offline
                                  O Offline
                                  obermd
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Ever land in Denver. I think many "unhacked" aircraft think Denver's runways are about 10 ft below their actual elevation.

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                                  • S Stuart Dootson

                                    Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:

                                    Flight controls have come a long way since then; they are 'By Wire', so electric, but they won't be connected to any other system except the batteries and their own, dedicated, presumably hard-embedded computing.

                                    Mmmmm - possibly not... The yoke & throttles are just the user interface, really - the flight control system has overall control of an airliner's attitude, altitude and speed, so needs to be able to command the control surfaces, the engines...all of the aircraft systems, really. Airliners these days have (slightly modified) ethernet connecting all these mission-critical systems, in order that they can communicate. That network is separated from the cabin network systems, although I'm not sure if the separation is via an air-gap or by using appropriately filtering switches - you'd hope an air-gap... Oh - and they don't tend to use batteries either - power comes from the engines or (if they're not running) an APU[^].

                                    Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!

                                    S Offline
                                    S Offline
                                    Simon ORiordan from UK
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    "Oh - and they don't tend to use batteries either - power comes from the engines or (if they're not running) an APU[^]." -Er yes. The engines probably feed the battery. Remember when 787's were grounded? Although direct power(through a regulator) would be more in keeping with redundancy of systems, and is thus far more desirable. I believe the first FBW plane was the Avro Vulcan of the 1950's. They even had to develop new lubricants for the control surfaces as they were flying around 60,000 feet.

                                    S 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • S Simon ORiordan from UK

                                      "Oh - and they don't tend to use batteries either - power comes from the engines or (if they're not running) an APU[^]." -Er yes. The engines probably feed the battery. Remember when 787's were grounded? Although direct power(through a regulator) would be more in keeping with redundancy of systems, and is thus far more desirable. I believe the first FBW plane was the Avro Vulcan of the 1950's. They even had to develop new lubricants for the control surfaces as they were flying around 60,000 feet.

                                      S Offline
                                      S Offline
                                      Stuart Dootson
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      The batteries are only used while other power sources (engines, APU) are off-line. In normal operation, they don't provide power, just (as you say) consume it to be recharged. Although that would all change if this beastie[^] were to be made...

                                      Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S Stuart Dootson

                                        The batteries are only used while other power sources (engines, APU) are off-line. In normal operation, they don't provide power, just (as you say) consume it to be recharged. Although that would all change if this beastie[^] were to be made...

                                        Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!

                                        S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        Simon ORiordan from UK
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Interesting; essentially a turbo shaft powering propulsors. No apparent need for a bypass-type ;) engine unless the propulsors are supplementary. Redundancy again. Loss of the power bus would enable the fan to keep the craft aloft until a diversion could be found.

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