What next for CP? (Part II)
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After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
I think this is a bad idea - though I reckon driven by very good improvement willing, no say. The people asking the homework questions will not bother more for looking about posting their questions at the correct places than they are for finding an answer to their problems by themselves or redacting a question properly. The users you are targeting can already not cope with the basics, so adding a complication level will not help, IMHO. More generally, I don't think having multiple entry points for a Q&A section is suited, this would break the "Fire (properly) and get an answer" philosophy. But then, I am not an hamster. As I am not into coding anymore, I do not frequent Q&A regularly, but I hear voices of dissatisfaction here and there. The real question to ask is: What is the problem ? ( The question formulation ? The "laziness" of people who cannot even google before asking ? The attitude of some people answering questions ? A design layout of the Q&A section which makes it less user-attractive than it could be ? etc...) To me, and this is true for programming in general, is that marketing of IT solutions encourage people to think that SW development is something easy, and that it gets even easier with the years, given that we have all these beautiful solutions/languages/frameworks which "supports" development, and what used to take hours can now be made by clicking on a button. And so this gives the impression to many that everybody can be a SW developer, hence all the silly questions in the Q&A sections from self-pretended(or boss-forced) WannBe SW developers. This is also partially encouraged by web sites like Code Project, which offer literally tons of resources and tutorials for free to everybody just stepping by - this is the main drawback of the advantage of free resources. A big move, IMO, would be to go the quality path, e.g. harder selection of articles to encourage only the best of them. This would lower the race-to-be-published-so-that-I-have-a-new-line-on-my-CV, and maybe improve the average skills level of people visiting the site, hence maybe the the question sections. The drawback being, that it would certainly reduce the traffic, which can obviously not be a goal of a web site that earns money based on it.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
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I think online chat would be nice.
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
I would leave this site if they would implement online chat. Not that I think me leaving would be a great loss, but I do not need AOL back.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Just plug the whole question into Google and give them the results while telling them it will be 2 hours before the question becomes visible on Q&A. Give them 10 points if they cancel the question within that time.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I think this is a bad idea - though I reckon driven by very good improvement willing, no say. The people asking the homework questions will not bother more for looking about posting their questions at the correct places than they are for finding an answer to their problems by themselves or redacting a question properly. The users you are targeting can already not cope with the basics, so adding a complication level will not help, IMHO. More generally, I don't think having multiple entry points for a Q&A section is suited, this would break the "Fire (properly) and get an answer" philosophy. But then, I am not an hamster. As I am not into coding anymore, I do not frequent Q&A regularly, but I hear voices of dissatisfaction here and there. The real question to ask is: What is the problem ? ( The question formulation ? The "laziness" of people who cannot even google before asking ? The attitude of some people answering questions ? A design layout of the Q&A section which makes it less user-attractive than it could be ? etc...) To me, and this is true for programming in general, is that marketing of IT solutions encourage people to think that SW development is something easy, and that it gets even easier with the years, given that we have all these beautiful solutions/languages/frameworks which "supports" development, and what used to take hours can now be made by clicking on a button. And so this gives the impression to many that everybody can be a SW developer, hence all the silly questions in the Q&A sections from self-pretended(or boss-forced) WannBe SW developers. This is also partially encouraged by web sites like Code Project, which offer literally tons of resources and tutorials for free to everybody just stepping by - this is the main drawback of the advantage of free resources. A big move, IMO, would be to go the quality path, e.g. harder selection of articles to encourage only the best of them. This would lower the race-to-be-published-so-that-I-have-a-new-line-on-my-CV, and maybe improve the average skills level of people visiting the site, hence maybe the the question sections. The drawback being, that it would certainly reduce the traffic, which can obviously not be a goal of a web site that earns money based on it.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
Rage wrote:
The people asking the homework questions will not bother more for looking about posting their questions at the correct places than they are for finding an answer to their problems by themselves or redacting a question properly. The users you are targeting can already not cope with the basics, so adding a complication level will not help, IMHO.
I agree that some of them (a lot of them?) fall into that category, but it can't be all of them. It just can't :^)
Rage wrote:
More generally, I don't think having multiple entry points for a Q&A section is suited, this would break the "Fire (properly) and get an answer" philosophy.
See, I think that is a big part of the problem. There are +235,000 questions in QA right now - a daunting task for a beginner to sift through. Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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I agree, but I think we have to ask ourselves why that is (they can't all be clueless). After all, they found the site, signed up and headed for the QA area. Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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Just plug the whole question into Google and give them the results while telling them it will be 2 hours before the question becomes visible on Q&A. Give them 10 points if they cancel the question within that time.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Yay, a rep farm!
Alberto Brandolini:
The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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No, don't get me wrong I mean something like irc. The hamsters could add a special button "NEED CODEZ URGENTZZZZZ" :laugh:
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
Online chat is a terrible idea. Who, exactly, would you connect to? Bear in mind that the people who answer questions are volunteers, and that this site is frequented by people from all round the world, the chances of you connecting to the person who is able, and has the time to work through the problem, is tiny. So no, online chat is not an option.
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SoMad wrote:
a great answer to a question might not be found by other students
That's because they never try looking.
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After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
I should call this a perfect shot. I had raised the same solution before almost a year ago, i don't remember exactly but it didn't get any response. This is the only solution to curb the rubbish.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
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That's true for most of the ones that post questions, but i've been using this site for 4 years already and only needed to post one programing question after 2 years. It's a good idea that might help some people.
Exactly, and that's why most of us like to try and answer questions. But it gets a bit tedious when so many users only come here because they are too lazy to read the documentation, use their debugger to collect some useful diagnostic information, or even to use Google.
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Online chat is a terrible idea. Who, exactly, would you connect to? Bear in mind that the people who answer questions are volunteers, and that this site is frequented by people from all round the world, the chances of you connecting to the person who is able, and has the time to work through the problem, is tiny. So no, online chat is not an option.
My idea for the online chat was not for the QA. It was more for the Lounge and The weird and Wonderful. For sharing more interesting articles and other things. With my expierience irc is a really good time filler. And yet again this idea may not be as good as it sounded inside my head.
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
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I should call this a perfect shot. I had raised the same solution before almost a year ago, i don't remember exactly but it didn't get any response. This is the only solution to curb the rubbish.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
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My idea for the online chat was not for the QA. It was more for the Lounge and The weird and Wonderful. For sharing more interesting articles and other things. With my expierience irc is a really good time filler. And yet again this idea may not be as good as it sounded inside my head.
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
I fail to see what online chat would bring over posting to the forums. Part of the problem is that the very nature of chat moves away from the idea of giving considered opinion and is best suited to things that don't need to survive after the chat session ends.
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After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
perhaps a new "Type" icon would be better? (General, News, Question, ...) In QA you do not select one by default forcing the user to choose one before submitting the question. Another forum, another place, there are already so many around it is even hard for professional people to get around. just my two cents ;)
V.
(MQOTD rules and previous solutions) -
After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
I doubt the idiots who can't be bothered to Google their exact question title will bother to post in the right section, either, particularly if that section has a reputation as a 'bin' where good answerers don't bother to look. So that leaves Protector members to move questions into the 'bin'. Why not just have Protector members delete the crap questions?
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After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
Since a good portion of the homework questions are repeats what about a homework knowledge base? Maybe a button when a question is answered correctly that would give the option to enter answer in the knowledge base.
Have you ever just looked at someone and knew the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead? Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9.
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After reading through the replies to DaveAuld's post from yesterday[^], specifically the comments about QA, I started wondering if we might be better off embracing the homework questions in a new way. I don't see the rate of homework questions declining in the future, so what if there was a separate QA area specifically for them? A QA area dedicated to answering basic questions from students that need a different explanation than what they got from their teacher. I know this already happens, but the noise level in QA is so high that a great answer to a question might not be found by other students with the same problem. There are many dedicated members that do a great job of answering questions in QA every day, but I know there are other very qualified members that don't want to deal with the current format. Let me be clear. I am not saying we should do their homework for them. In fact I think there should be a report option specifically for that, so those questions can be kicked back without even having to post a message to explain that. Couple that with the ability for Protectors to move questions from one area to another. I am not claiming this is an optimal solution, but do you think something like that would make for a better or worse QA experience? [*Zips up fireproof suit and grabs a bottle of water*] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
A new section or area will just confuse people more. They will post in the wrong place and then just get nasty messages about how they need to post elsewhere. How about a way to search/filter QAs by reputation? Typically a homework question is written by someone new with a lower rep value. Or else adding a way for the questioner to specify their experience level? And filters/search for that?
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No, don't get me wrong I mean something like irc. The hamsters could add a special button "NEED CODEZ URGENTZZZZZ" :laugh:
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
when the special button is clicked: int main() { printf("Hello world\n"); exit(0); } :-\
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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I agree and perhaps the alternative is to have moderation of questions just like for articles. This also has it's problems.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
