Giving up programming
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Put a big sign on the wall: A PROCESS SHOULD ONLY BE CONSIDERED IF: 1: It demonstrably improves products or services from the customer perspective. 2: It demonstrably improves the efficiency of product/service implementation without having a negative effect on point 1. 3: It demonstrably makes the job easier for those implementing the product/service, without having a negative effect on points 1 or 2. All too many poor and/or inappropriate processes are put in place because they're either fashionable or they appeal to one or more people personally. If a process, no matter how "in" it is or how appealing it is to your or anyone else's tastes, does not *demonstrably* meet the requirements above, it should be replaced with processes that do. And keep pounding the word "demonstrably". If someone wants a new process, he has to demonstrate the effects it will have on the company, including all the cons (make sure that any discussions go straight to seeking out the cons, rather than bathing in the glory of the pros).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
- If the managers don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
Then 99% of my code is not usable ;P
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
You fell straight into the trap. What does the manager need to understand? He [probably] won't understand the code, nor does he need to. He will need to understand what it does, how it can be used, maybe who will buy it. THAT is his understanding. Now if you look at each stakeholder, think about what they need to understand. The code may be elegant and simple but the UI is cluttered - FAIL for the user. A beautiful and simple UX with an unmaintainable heap behind - FAIL for the devs. Think about what people want, not just what you want.
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I think I have had enough. I still enjoy programming but there seems to be very little of it around any more. I spend my time fighting with the tools rather than working on the solution. Deployment is an utter farce. Source control is hideous. Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.
Thank goodness, I thought it was just me . I spend longer thinking about other peoples frameworks than it would have taken me to write half the things from scratch .
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I have no complaints about the programming language environment in VS2010/12 - they are great. I loathe any kind of source control - I have never had any actual cause to use it but spend a lot of time fighting it
Dude, Source control is your friend. If you don't understand the Source Control they are using try try try, But seriously take the time to check out other Source Control processes. I have been forced to use GIT, TFS(VSS) in my job. But for my home projects and my home machine I use TortouseHG/ http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/[^] It just works and it is simple to use and it interfaces with VS Ruby ETC.... Love it. Seriously Source Control makes you a better programmer because you no longer have to worry about what changes I made or where this rabbit hole I am in is going. It gives you and quick way to get back to the beginning and start down another rabbit hole and takes care of all the overhead. Never mind working with a team. This is just my own mind going down the various trails to see where I might end up.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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Thank goodness, I thought it was just me . I spend longer thinking about other peoples frameworks than it would have taken me to write half the things from scratch .
Don't get me started on frameworks
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Dude, Source control is your friend. If you don't understand the Source Control they are using try try try, But seriously take the time to check out other Source Control processes. I have been forced to use GIT, TFS(VSS) in my job. But for my home projects and my home machine I use TortouseHG/ http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/[^] It just works and it is simple to use and it interfaces with VS Ruby ETC.... Love it. Seriously Source Control makes you a better programmer because you no longer have to worry about what changes I made or where this rabbit hole I am in is going. It gives you and quick way to get back to the beginning and start down another rabbit hole and takes care of all the overhead. Never mind working with a team. This is just my own mind going down the various trails to see where I might end up.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
I have to use TFS Previously I would just zip up my dev folder and park it in a rolling folder in the server so it would be backed up. If I found myself going down the wrong path I would just restore the project from the zip file. Live releases would get their own backed up zip file. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
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You fell straight into the trap. What does the manager need to understand? He [probably] won't understand the code, nor does he need to. He will need to understand what it does, how it can be used, maybe who will buy it. THAT is his understanding. Now if you look at each stakeholder, think about what they need to understand. The code may be elegant and simple but the UI is cluttered - FAIL for the user. A beautiful and simple UX with an unmaintainable heap behind - FAIL for the devs. Think about what people want, not just what you want.
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Now if you look at each stakeholder, think about what they need to understand. The code may be elegant and simple but the UI is cluttered - FAIL for the user. A beautiful and simple UX with an unmaintainable heap behind - FAIL for the devs.
That is what I always try. I usually ask the future users and their "seniors" or maintenance guys or ingenieurs when developing the concept, to make it as close as I can to their "wills" or needs. Then I program the code in such a way, it is self-explaining. Not only for other people, but for me if I have to get back there somewhen in the future, when I don't remember anymore what I thought when programming it. My team leader always aks... does what it has to do? Does it with realiability and without blockades? Did you finish in time or get more money for the "extras"? If yes to all... then he is happy and let me manage myself on my own.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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What tools are you using? I've been using Microsoft Visual tools for 20 odd years and they've never been better. Sure, we all miss Visual SourceSafe and the web is just an abomination, but there's plenty of scope for *proper* programming still.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
Actually, I'm still using SourceSafe. I can't stand it. It doesn't handle long lines in a file so it always reports every single minified JS file as having differences in it. It doesn't work on Windows 7/8 properly and certain hacks need to be put in place. Not that it wasn't good in its day though.
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Actually, I'm still using SourceSafe. I can't stand it. It doesn't handle long lines in a file so it always reports every single minified JS file as having differences in it. It doesn't work on Windows 7/8 properly and certain hacks need to be put in place. Not that it wasn't good in its day though.
I guess its been about ten years since I last used it. I have a certain respect for its non-branching ethos. The thing I do remember about it though is lots of very odd files, and the occasional moment when everything would get corrupted completely. That and shouting over the room "after you for Hyperblaster.cpp Dave!"
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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Thank goodness, I thought it was just me . I spend longer thinking about other peoples frameworks than it would have taken me to write half the things from scratch .
Andrew Torrance wrote:
I spend longer thinking about other peoples frameworks than it would have taken me to write half the things from scratch .
I just had to upvote this.
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I think I have had enough. I still enjoy programming but there seems to be very little of it around any more. I spend my time fighting with the tools rather than working on the solution. Deployment is an utter farce. Source control is hideous. Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.
Maybe you just need a new job? I think that there are two types of programmers, career programmers and "I'm doing this because I love it" programmers, and there's nothing wrong with either, I would say the industry needs both. If you do it because you love it and you are working in a place designed for, and with other, career programmers, you're going to have a bad time! Equally, if it's just a career for you, and you're working other programmers who would be there even if nobody was paying them, it's going to suck. So maybe you fall into one category, and you're working at a company designed for the other category?
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I have been trying with source control and I kind of understand why some people like it. Personally I have never had any benefit from it but lots and lots and lots of trouble. Maybe because I don't understand how to use it.
You'll see the benefit when your hard drive melts down and you need to get the source of the project you're working on. An off site repository is a must.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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My source control is just to make a zip-backup with format: Projekt_name - Timestamp - Brief description of the higlights made that day With it I have the "Branching" and "Tagging" functionality you describe. The only one missing is "Diffing" but, since in the PLC-World it is very uncommon that more than a person works in the very same programm, I don't really need it. The only one making changes it's me.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
very much like my previous method which worked for me since I stopped using 12" mag tapes
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You'll see the benefit when your hard drive melts down and you need to get the source of the project you're working on. An off site repository is a must.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
previously I backed up to zip files on the server which are subsequently backed up to tape and held off site
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previously I backed up to zip files on the server which are subsequently backed up to tape and held off site
Except that's not SOURCE CONTROL, that's BACKING up - two entirely different things. You should be doing both. First, assuming you find yourself working in a multi-developer environment... ZIP files does noting for you. How do you reliably get the other developer's changes? Second, what if you made changes all week and the customer wants you to roll back a portion of it? You can't unless you're zipping every half day. Even then, you lose half a days work. Third, like someone else mentioned, how would you branch / merge? You can't without source control. I agree that source control is tedious, kludgy, and a real mess. I STILL don't get TFS on-line, but in VS it works ok. Having said that, I would Never work without it.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Except that's not SOURCE CONTROL, that's BACKING up - two entirely different things. You should be doing both. First, assuming you find yourself working in a multi-developer environment... ZIP files does noting for you. How do you reliably get the other developer's changes? Second, what if you made changes all week and the customer wants you to roll back a portion of it? You can't unless you're zipping every half day. Even then, you lose half a days work. Third, like someone else mentioned, how would you branch / merge? You can't without source control. I agree that source control is tedious, kludgy, and a real mess. I STILL don't get TFS on-line, but in VS it works ok. Having said that, I would Never work without it.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
I know it isn't source control. I have always previously worked in a team of one - me. The customer has never asked me to roll back a portion of it as I always keep the customer in the loop with what I am doing and plan to do. I have never had a reason to branch/merge I understand why people use source control - I am venting because I am having to use it.
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I think I have had enough. I still enjoy programming but there seems to be very little of it around any more. I spend my time fighting with the tools rather than working on the solution. Deployment is an utter farce. Source control is hideous. Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.
RugbyLeague wrote:
Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.
Ahh, I believe I see the problem. Put the web down, and take a step back. Before the web, there were other types of things that required programming. In fact, it turns out that there still are things that require programming not related to the web; plenty of it. I would argue that you should give up hacking, and shift over to programming ;) This guy may need some help Drones[^] (Hopefully he is not planning on connecting it to the web).
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RugbyLeague wrote:
Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.
Ahh, I believe I see the problem. Put the web down, and take a step back. Before the web, there were other types of things that required programming. In fact, it turns out that there still are things that require programming not related to the web; plenty of it. I would argue that you should give up hacking, and shift over to programming ;) This guy may need some help Drones[^] (Hopefully he is not planning on connecting it to the web).
The problem is I am being asked to do web stuff - not something I have ever done before. It's like wading through treacle.
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Coming from someone like you, Marc, that's high praise. Let's hope a few people listen.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I think I have had enough. I still enjoy programming but there seems to be very little of it around any more. I spend my time fighting with the tools rather than working on the solution. Deployment is an utter farce. Source control is hideous. Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.