Agile the end of the developer.
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Does it matter if the bite marks show?
Software Zen:
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
First, realize that Agile is the flavor of the day. And more accurately, is the flavor of the month but could be on its way out soon. Of course people will still jumping on Scrum as it is being replaced by the next great thing. Second, realize that managers can turn all that is good into all that sucks. The very basis of management in America is based on the premise that you have two classes of people. And they teach the management class that if we can be trusted we should be put into the lower level of their class. If we don't want that, we can't be trusted. Because of the basic distrust of managers, most places that profess some methodology us some management speak to twist the thing in a heap of dung but remain buzz word compliant. (And Agile is a buzz word today.) There are rumors of some places claiming scrum from daily meetings and ending them by asking about road blocks. Also, if you ever want some enlightenment, search out the origins of the "waterfall" method of development and see how iterative it really is.
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
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Disclaimer: Note that the following applies to Scrum, not necessarily all of Agile. " In Scrum, Development Team members are called “developers,“ regardless of their background, job title, or skill set. Development Team members may have experience in software engineering, testing, architecture and design, graphic design, database administration, business analysis, technical writing, or other similar specialties. Regardless of what their resume says, they are now “developers“ as far as Scrum is concerned. They should burn their business cards and focus on delivering value in the form of working software. Also, there are no subteams in Scrum, such as testing or QA. The Development Team performs all of the work required to deliver the done increment of the software product. It’s important to note that just because a team member is called a developer, this does not necessarily mean that they will be developing (writing) code. Depending on the task, they may be developing architecture, developing user interface or design, developing test cases, developing database objects, developing installers, or developing documentation, etc. Everyone develops something. " -- Professional Scrum Development with Microsoft® Visual Studio® 2012, Richard Hundhausen
Simply Agile is a myth. The only way that someone can point to an agile success is that a person with brains and forcefulness beats the system into submission and makes what ever is happening in the "Scrum" work. There is no real structure. Anything so convoluted that you can write an entire book on one portion of the process (Writing the Story) is far too complicated to be real or functional. The reason everyone is called "Developer" is to minimize the real developers. :mad:
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
Did your agency pay the the firm conducting the Boot Camp? You guys were robbed. Find someone who knows what they're talking about. I applaud your skepticism, sir.
B. Mead
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In all seriousness, I'm not that convinced by Agile yet - I suspect it's "just another fad" that is going to get dropped in a couple of years when "working code" starts being "not-working code" and the maintenance headache of not having any idea how it works (and no documentation) starts to bite. A problem made worse by an attitude of "any warm body will do". Pipe welding doesn't pay that well in the UK - the country is apparently full of Polish plumbers who can do it for a cup of tea and a fiver... :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
OriginalGriff wrote:
Pipe welding doesn't pay that well in the UK - the country is apparently full of Polish plumbers who can do it for a cup of tea and a fiver... :laugh:
[Queue song: "I wanna be a cowboy", by Boys Don't Cry] Go west young man... go west [^]
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
Why I suddenly need to think about Dilbert?
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
I've heard that bus driving ain't too bad! ;)
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In all seriousness, I'm not that convinced by Agile yet - I suspect it's "just another fad" that is going to get dropped in a couple of years when "working code" starts being "not-working code" and the maintenance headache of not having any idea how it works (and no documentation) starts to bite. A problem made worse by an attitude of "any warm body will do". Pipe welding doesn't pay that well in the UK - the country is apparently full of Polish plumbers who can do it for a cup of tea and a fiver... :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
I suspect it's like any paradigm. Those that need strictly enforced rules ("but agile says it has to be done this way, every time") aren't imaginative enough to adapt and succeed when necessary. Are all facets of any process necessary on any project? I suppose one could argue that noting a typo in some text on page A of the application is requirements gathering. But, sometimes, that's it; we don't need a whole process to discuss and mull over the implications of making that fix. OTOH, some things are complex enough that nobody could imagine all the test cases without putting a little of it in place and seeing it in action. I think that's what agile brings, is making sure everyone has that understanding up front, and that it's not panties-in-a-bunch time when some corner case reveals itself. It's just time to adapt.
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In all seriousness, I'm not that convinced by Agile yet - I suspect it's "just another fad" that is going to get dropped in a couple of years when "working code" starts being "not-working code" and the maintenance headache of not having any idea how it works (and no documentation) starts to bite. A problem made worse by an attitude of "any warm body will do". Pipe welding doesn't pay that well in the UK - the country is apparently full of Polish plumbers who can do it for a cup of tea and a fiver... :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Agile? Hmm... oh yeah, that's the thing that all the younger developers get hung up in while I get work done! ;)
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
Snake Oil purveyors are always around; all of these camps and movements and manifestos sometimes smell like an attempt to avoid, or at least postpone, work.
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Aspirin cures headaches. Oh, good, then it cures broken arm pain and toothache pain and every other ailment also. Manager: We need a process. Let's try Agile. 6 weeks later... Manager: After all that time spent learning Agile, we have learned that Agile is the be-all end-all. It has to be or else we just wasted a lot of time and money learning a process we could've learned in a few hours. Developer: Now you're on to something. Could've learned it in a few hours. The truth is you cannot write a book about something you learn in a few hours. So books on Agile wouldn't sell unless they are long. Also, Contracting and Training groups need long subjects to teach so they can charge vast amounts of money. The heart of Agile is simple. But it has been falsely inflated for monetary gain. Ugh. If you've ever developed a substantial piece of software by yourself you probably found that you adhered to the basic principles of Agile. It's really that easy. Everyone is a developer. Up until someone goes to do maintenance on their code.
-- The heart of Agile is simple. But it has been falsely inflated for monetary gain. Total agreement.
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Disclaimer: Note that the following applies to Scrum, not necessarily all of Agile. " In Scrum, Development Team members are called “developers,“ regardless of their background, job title, or skill set. Development Team members may have experience in software engineering, testing, architecture and design, graphic design, database administration, business analysis, technical writing, or other similar specialties. Regardless of what their resume says, they are now “developers“ as far as Scrum is concerned. They should burn their business cards and focus on delivering value in the form of working software. Also, there are no subteams in Scrum, such as testing or QA. The Development Team performs all of the work required to deliver the done increment of the software product. It’s important to note that just because a team member is called a developer, this does not necessarily mean that they will be developing (writing) code. Depending on the task, they may be developing architecture, developing user interface or design, developing test cases, developing database objects, developing installers, or developing documentation, etc. Everyone develops something. " -- Professional Scrum Development with Microsoft® Visual Studio® 2012, Richard Hundhausen
Scrum sold out years ago. :( It used to be Chickens and Pigs....now everyone is a "Pig"...honest.
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Disclaimer: Note that the following applies to Scrum, not necessarily all of Agile. " In Scrum, Development Team members are called “developers,“ regardless of their background, job title, or skill set. Development Team members may have experience in software engineering, testing, architecture and design, graphic design, database administration, business analysis, technical writing, or other similar specialties. Regardless of what their resume says, they are now “developers“ as far as Scrum is concerned. They should burn their business cards and focus on delivering value in the form of working software. Also, there are no subteams in Scrum, such as testing or QA. The Development Team performs all of the work required to deliver the done increment of the software product. It’s important to note that just because a team member is called a developer, this does not necessarily mean that they will be developing (writing) code. Depending on the task, they may be developing architecture, developing user interface or design, developing test cases, developing database objects, developing installers, or developing documentation, etc. Everyone develops something. " -- Professional Scrum Development with Microsoft® Visual Studio® 2012, Richard Hundhausen
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newton.saber wrote:
Everyone is a developer. Up until someone goes to do maintenance on their code.
Then what do they become?
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
"Agile" and all the other such paradigms are complete nonsense that are being used to replace simple, common sense so that many people can make money promoting them. You simply cannot build high-quality systems and applications without quality requirements gathering, quality design, proper scheduling, and technicians who understand that code is as much an art as it is a science. However, to get around all this we have the latest buzz-word development paradigm in Agile. I have worked in many shops that consider themselves "Agile" and all of them have boiled down to we simply don't have the time to do the work properly...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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My agency just put my work group and some select clients through an Agile Boot camp. Early on we were told that everyone is a developer and those sub humans who write code are just um… coders. Then my supervisor jumps up and says so anyone can be a coder. We can have testers or anyone be the coders. So from this we get if everyone is a developer then no one is the developer, and code if written at all can be written by any warm body if we bother to write it at all. Anyone interested in pipe welding as a career? I hear it pays well.
It's always darkest before it goes completely black.
I was the trainer in this particular class and I would like to apologize to Earl for not making the message clearer. In no way was it intended to sound like anyone can do anything. In fact in the class it was specifically stated that the view that everyone can code is a mistake and it doesn't work. That would be a purist/dogma view and would be lunacy. The statement was that everyone needs to step outside their skills and help other team members. Even if it means that BAs test, developers write requirements, or any other combination, "as long as they have the skillset and/or mentoring available to be able to do so". The goal is teamwork, not replacing specialists with generalists. In addition, calling everyone a "developer" is not intended to reduce the value of that skillset. Instead it's to promote the concept that the entire team is producing the product, not just developers/coders. A tester or BA, etc., is no less valuable than any other team member and everyone is involved in "developing" the product. I would like to suggest that next time you are in a class and you feel so strongly about something, that perhaps you should ask a question in the class rather than taking to public forums. I would have gladly explained further or had a debate in person. Perhaps then you could have walked away with a better understanding. Again, I would like to apologize if that message was not properly conveyed.
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Griff, at some level I'd agree with you - we've all seen the new new thing come and go. Back in my Science Systems days we sometimes used a formal methodology called Dynamic System Development Methodology (DSDM) where appropriate. It was great for stuff like web pages and user interfaces. Not so great for database design and complex real-time stuff. It was agile before Agile ... another tool in our toolbox to use for the right widget. I don't believe that agile works in all cases, in others it's a no brainer and doesn't need a fancy title. As soon as someone takes a common-sense idea, gives it a fancy newspeak title, publishes a book or two and commends it's universal use I'm turned off (what was that Universal something or other that was all the rage 10 years ago?!!!) I used to belong to the Anarchy Society, but I didn't like the rules.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
The problem is that all these b***rds want something for nothing. They *won't* pay the money for the ability, they *won't* work it out, they just want a formula to apply to save them having to think or analyse or do justice. They want to be the guy senior management pats on the head for saving x-amount of salary by hiring the cheapest. And when the product isn't up to scratch, they're long gone. Fortunately where I work they pay well, recruit quality and avoid all gimmicks. As for Polish plumbers, I hired a local West Country man to hack my garden ready for the Winter. He quoted £35 to nuke the hedges back to the Stone Age, a ridiculously low quote. He turned up on Saturday and did a superb job in pouring rain. I paid him £45. Cheap at the price, the guy was a genuine grafter, and I don't miss the extra tenner. Agile evangelists are for people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
