What Source Control and issue tracking system would you choose today?
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Yes, I know the question has been asked before, but things change and so does opinions. I have finally been tasked with exchanging our stone age CVS system and to implement an issue tracking system at the same time. ... And I just removed half a book of what I've looked at and how I reason about my choices, because I realize that I should get your "unbiased" opinions. :rolleyes: <edit>We're a small shop doing mainly Asp.Net and forms with Oracle as backend DB</edit>
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
I use FogBugz for issue tracking and VisualSVN (on my own server) for source control
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I'm doing that too, it just feels a bit limited.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen, why not use TFS online (hosted at MS) for free? I've been using it for my personal projects and absolutely love it! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I'm seeing a pattern here. Are you at a big company?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Fourthed. I use it at work (large company, enterprise software development) and for myself (1 person shop). /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Jörgen, why not use TFS online (hosted at MS) for free? I've been using it for my personal projects and absolutely love it! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Is it free for business too?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I was 'blissfully' ignorant of so much until I started the new job last Monday. Suddenly everything is cloud. TFS, Visual Studio Online, and Azure. The only 'local' servers my work has come close to are the domain and Exchange.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
Interesting, mail is usually the first thing to be outsourced otherwise.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Is it free for business too?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Yessir, for up to 5 users! :cool: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I use FogBugz for issue tracking and VisualSVN (on my own server) for source control
I believe that was the first FogBugz comment today, Are you happy with it? Any specific gotchas?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Yessir, for up to 5 users! :cool: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Damn, but good enough for testing actually.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I believe that was the first FogBugz comment today, Are you happy with it? Any specific gotchas?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
FogBugz - I love it, I love it, I love it!
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Yes, I know the question has been asked before, but things change and so does opinions. I have finally been tasked with exchanging our stone age CVS system and to implement an issue tracking system at the same time. ... And I just removed half a book of what I've looked at and how I reason about my choices, because I realize that I should get your "unbiased" opinions. :rolleyes: <edit>We're a small shop doing mainly Asp.Net and forms with Oracle as backend DB</edit>
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Would you mind expanding that?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
TFS has basic issue tracking, but configuring fields and changing allowed statuses requires exporting xml, editing it and importing it. Each project has a template for how issues are tracked, but changing templates midstream can be a pain, and some features aren't available for all templates. Upgrading major versions of TFS can be a pain, and synchronizing the 5 databases to get clean backups requires a custom script. The source control portion is better now, and you don't have always be connected to the TFS server without it complaining. However, TFS is lacking things like being able to search for commit messages. The file search will only search by file name not file content. Branching and merging work just like other systems and I haven't had any issues with any of the basic operations. However, it can support something like a 20 server configuration with multiple database servers, web servers, sharepoint servers, and custom source proxy servers for handling remote offices, so it can definitely scale up to handle something as huge as the windows codebase.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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TFS has basic issue tracking, but configuring fields and changing allowed statuses requires exporting xml, editing it and importing it. Each project has a template for how issues are tracked, but changing templates midstream can be a pain, and some features aren't available for all templates. Upgrading major versions of TFS can be a pain, and synchronizing the 5 databases to get clean backups requires a custom script. The source control portion is better now, and you don't have always be connected to the TFS server without it complaining. However, TFS is lacking things like being able to search for commit messages. The file search will only search by file name not file content. Branching and merging work just like other systems and I haven't had any issues with any of the basic operations. However, it can support something like a 20 server configuration with multiple database servers, web servers, sharepoint servers, and custom source proxy servers for handling remote offices, so it can definitely scale up to handle something as huge as the windows codebase.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Thanks! :thumbsup:
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Yes, I know the question has been asked before, but things change and so does opinions. I have finally been tasked with exchanging our stone age CVS system and to implement an issue tracking system at the same time. ... And I just removed half a book of what I've looked at and how I reason about my choices, because I realize that I should get your "unbiased" opinions. :rolleyes: <edit>We're a small shop doing mainly Asp.Net and forms with Oracle as backend DB</edit>
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
git, obviously.
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git, obviously.
Why is that obvious? I read Albert Holguins rant higher up in the Lounge, and he doesn't seem to happy with it.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Why is that obvious? I read Albert Holguins rant higher up in the Lounge, and he doesn't seem to happy with it.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Well, Jorgen, git may be somewhat fiddly, but it unifies teams both locally and remotely; it can be used by a lone programmer all the way up to a very large team, in case you grow, and this team can mix and match remote and local workers. By using configuration a build-master can be appointed as with other systems, and it works with various OS's, so your team can do cross-platform development seamlessly. Also it's free and integrated into Visual Studio from 2012 up, available in 2008 and 2010 also, if that's where your team works.
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TFS has basic issue tracking, but configuring fields and changing allowed statuses requires exporting xml, editing it and importing it. Each project has a template for how issues are tracked, but changing templates midstream can be a pain, and some features aren't available for all templates. Upgrading major versions of TFS can be a pain, and synchronizing the 5 databases to get clean backups requires a custom script. The source control portion is better now, and you don't have always be connected to the TFS server without it complaining. However, TFS is lacking things like being able to search for commit messages. The file search will only search by file name not file content. Branching and merging work just like other systems and I haven't had any issues with any of the basic operations. However, it can support something like a 20 server configuration with multiple database servers, web servers, sharepoint servers, and custom source proxy servers for handling remote offices, so it can definitely scale up to handle something as huge as the windows codebase.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Andy Brummer wrote:
However, TFS is lacking things like being able to search for commit messages.
WAIT WHAT THE SHEEP? Just... can't? Now, I'm sure you could open the relevant DB and fire a query at it :wtf:
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Why is that obvious? I read Albert Holguins rant higher up in the Lounge, and he doesn't seem to happy with it.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
I'm surprised git didn't come up earlier in this thread. GIT is a basterd to learn. Haven't found any tool that spares you learning the command line, the Linux culture is strong in this - and grating. Change in mindset may be steep. Yet it also allows a few workflows that feel like magic. For me, the biggest feature is interactive rebase: allows you to commit frequently and "dirty", then reorganize and clean the history before publishing it to public. Conceptually, many commands do not operate on verisons, but on changes between versions - such as cherry-pick and rebase to move changes from one branch to another. git blame is great for those "where the eff does this line come from?" moments. It does change your workflow in a way I would miss with another tool.
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I'm surprised git didn't come up earlier in this thread. GIT is a basterd to learn. Haven't found any tool that spares you learning the command line, the Linux culture is strong in this - and grating. Change in mindset may be steep. Yet it also allows a few workflows that feel like magic. For me, the biggest feature is interactive rebase: allows you to commit frequently and "dirty", then reorganize and clean the history before publishing it to public. Conceptually, many commands do not operate on verisons, but on changes between versions - such as cherry-pick and rebase to move changes from one branch to another. git blame is great for those "where the eff does this line come from?" moments. It does change your workflow in a way I would miss with another tool.
It's "GIT is a basterd to learn" vs "I need those extra functions?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Andy Brummer wrote:
However, TFS is lacking things like being able to search for commit messages.
WAIT WHAT THE SHEEP? Just... can't? Now, I'm sure you could open the relevant DB and fire a query at it :wtf:
There are plugins that do that now, but the early recommendation was to export all the comments to a text file and then search the file.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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It's "GIT is a basterd to learn" vs "I need those extra functions?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
What I tried to convey is that it's not just *extra functions* but that is has a fundamental (supposedly net-positive) influence on the whole development process, one that isn't easily captured in "X% increased productivity" (which also means evaluation is subjective, so yes, YMMV.) Mercurial is probably mature enough now to be a viable alternative. I'd still recommend because - despite obvious drawbacks - it has become the de facto standard in a wide range of the dev world.