Why so much mathematics in CS?
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
"It never ceases to amaze me that a spacecraft launched in 1977 can be fixed remotely from Earth." ― Brian Cox
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I'm self taught, no college education. But I must say that although I don't specifically implement mathematics in my work, I find myself using math a lot in my mind as I work. Especially with Web projects. Helps to solve a lot of problems, layout issues, etc. It isn't really complicated mathematics, but I can see how they would apply.
djj55: Nice but may have a permission problem Pete O'Hanlon: He has my permission to run it.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I went off to Uni (many moons ago) to study a BTech in Maths and Computer Science. At the end of my first year I failed every maths subject (getting zero in one exam, I suspect I didn't even get my own name right) and transferred to a "pure" CS after I re-did the maths exams (at home, no time pressure, all my books and notes. And friends who had passed them handy). I can say that with the exception of basic geometry the only thing I have needed any significant maths for since is low level graphics drivers (you need trig for arcs, curves, and circles). So no. It wasn't really handy. I think it's a hangover to the old, old days: when maths (and Latin) was at the root of all science and scientific thinking. You need some, yes - but nothing too advanced any more. (You need a damn sight more math for physics than for computing these days)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
We had a lot of maths courses (calculus, stats, linear algebra...) and a lot of theoretical CS courses that required a good maths base. I forgot most of it because I did not have use for them in the jobs I had after uni. but now, it kills me and I need to get back to it if I want to improve my skills.
I'd rather be phishing!
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Yes I did - Computer Engineering in Italy is strongly based on Mathematics. Yes I used and use it heavily. Processing analogic and digital signals, analyzing mass spectres and densimetries to detect irregularities, optimizing such algorithms through analysis before the implementation... They are all part of my day-to-day job. Also if I were to program videogames I'd need a thorough competence in trigonometry, while for Operational Research math is needed to understanding and avoiding precision losses and to pre-optimize procedures. Big data research uses algorithms strongly based on statistical correlation, which is a living hell of integrals of each and any order. Let's not even talk about more scientific fields, where interaction with physics (and so differential equations of any order) is continuous. IMHO teaching good math in the studies is the best way to go, because you don't limit students to a few career paths - the ones who end up developing Android apps or simple applications may discard any deep mathematical knowledge, while those who feel up to may end up in other fields where math is more important.
Geek code v 3.12 GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
It's simple organizational politics and economics. FACT: CompSci was developed by Math Department. FACT: Because CompSci is a Math major, there are minimum requirements to be taught by the Math Department professors. Supposition: If Math Department loses control of Comp Sci major, math requirements would lessen causing Math Department to lose professors, staff and budget. Supposition: If Math Department loses professors, staff and budget then the Dean of the Math department would have less prestige and lower pay. Result: Math Department won't give it up CompSci major and the requirements for taking course in the math department stays high/ That said, many universities have business school programs with emphasis on information systems. The math requirements stop with applied calculus and statistics courses. The question is: Do you want to write compilers or business apps?
cat fud heer
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I went off to Uni (many moons ago) to study a BTech in Maths and Computer Science. At the end of my first year I failed every maths subject (getting zero in one exam, I suspect I didn't even get my own name right) and transferred to a "pure" CS after I re-did the maths exams (at home, no time pressure, all my books and notes. And friends who had passed them handy). I can say that with the exception of basic geometry the only thing I have needed any significant maths for since is low level graphics drivers (you need trig for arcs, curves, and circles). So no. It wasn't really handy. I think it's a hangover to the old, old days: when maths (and Latin) was at the root of all science and scientific thinking. You need some, yes - but nothing too advanced any more. (You need a damn sight more math for physics than for computing these days)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Agree about the physics! Many, many moons ago when I started Uni I was aiming for a degree in Physics. That lasted until second year. The day my lecturer put a double integral sign up on the blackboard (I said it was long ago) was the day I knew I would have to find something else... so computing science it was!
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I'm currently doing a bachelor IT at the Open University. I've done a good part of the first year and yes, I needed math. There's discrete math A and B in the first year. Also communication technology which deals with subjects (like waves and Fourier analysis) that require math. There's also a course on computer systems and I suspect it will be more math, but don't know yet as I haven't followed the course. In my second and third year I'll start with continuous math. After that I'll do capita selecta math, algorithms and logic (three seperate courses). Other courses that I'm probably going to need math for are security and artificial intelligence. I needed at least some understanding of math terminology and syntax for the course functional programming. So yeah, I need that math... For my university. In the real world I've only used it to impress and belittle my boss and coworkers. Totally worth it :D But really, I hate it and whenever I get stuck it's because of math. I even thought about quitting because of math, but then I realized I'm not a quitter and I sat in a corner and cried and cried and then I passed that math exam... At least after all those math courses I can recognize the pattern of wanting to quit, cry and deal with it.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
What do you consider an enormous amount of Math? I had to take first year calculus, which you needed to know to do most of the other science/engineering physics. If you didn't have a firm grasp of math to that level, you would struggle. We also had to take a second year of calculus. This was primarily focused on engineering related problems. And probability. All of the other math classes were some form of abstract or discrete mathematics. I believe we only needed to add 2-3 more math classes and we could earn a minor in math along with our Bachelor of Science. So it sounds like a lot of math, but most of it you need to be prepared to take some of the other classes. Then if you consider the ultimate purpose of higher education is to create prepared minds, then the amount of raw math seemed appropriate. --- Yes it has been useful, however, my jobs have not always required as much math as I would like. But even if I have forgotten how to practice most of the formula's, I can hold intelligent with other engineers that are not CS majors on a project that contains Electrical, Mechanical, and Chemical Engineers. My education prepared me.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
It is a requirement for the "science" part of the degree, I believe.
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What do you consider an enormous amount of Math? I had to take first year calculus, which you needed to know to do most of the other science/engineering physics. If you didn't have a firm grasp of math to that level, you would struggle. We also had to take a second year of calculus. This was primarily focused on engineering related problems. And probability. All of the other math classes were some form of abstract or discrete mathematics. I believe we only needed to add 2-3 more math classes and we could earn a minor in math along with our Bachelor of Science. So it sounds like a lot of math, but most of it you need to be prepared to take some of the other classes. Then if you consider the ultimate purpose of higher education is to create prepared minds, then the amount of raw math seemed appropriate. --- Yes it has been useful, however, my jobs have not always required as much math as I would like. But even if I have forgotten how to practice most of the formula's, I can hold intelligent with other engineers that are not CS majors on a project that contains Electrical, Mechanical, and Chemical Engineers. My education prepared me.
Aye, I totally quote that. I find myself working on fast production lines with mechanical and electrical issues to be accounted for. I also help on the CAD drawings and electrical planning of the new models of machine we sell. And our ONLY need is identifying threats in food and medications by means of X-Ray - there enter Physics and Chemistry, in fact my boss is a Chemical Engineer. I worked also in robotics - physics all the way down there, from Computer Vision to movement.
Geek code v 3.12 GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I'm self taught, so I didn't study math much in the beginning, I did a bit down the road.
Jeremy Falcon
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Aye, I totally quote that. I find myself working on fast production lines with mechanical and electrical issues to be accounted for. I also help on the CAD drawings and electrical planning of the new models of machine we sell. And our ONLY need is identifying threats in food and medications by means of X-Ray - there enter Physics and Chemistry, in fact my boss is a Chemical Engineer. I worked also in robotics - physics all the way down there, from Computer Vision to movement.
Geek code v 3.12 GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
Yep, just because you don't use it directly, doesn't mean you don't need it. It's similar to sorting algorithms and other basic data structures. I haven't had to code one of those in years, because there are plenty of fantastic libraries that already work and allow me to focus on my job. But it's still helpful to know how to create them if I had to.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
As an engineer, I learned far more mathematics, and I've found a use for most of it. Considering that one of the most important functions of a computer is to crunch numbers and perform calculations that would be inefficient to do manually, this emphasis on mathematics is entirely appropriate.
Will Rogers never met me.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Math, I can see as being useful for a computer science degree. However, what would you make of chemistry? [rant] I didn't take any chemistry class in high school. When I applied to university, I was accepted, but was warned I had to take a chemistry class to catch up. The class was scheduled at the same time as one of my math courses. I brought up my scheduling conflict issue to the teachers from the respective classes, who in turn told me to talk to the university administration; admin told me to take it up with my teachers. That's when, as a kid, I finally realized that higher education is actually run like any for-profit business. They'll accept anyone and be glad to take your money, even knowing you can't possibly be at two lectures that are taking place at the same time; as long as you pay up, they're happy to watch you drop out. Realizing that, I told them to go f*ck themselves for wasting a year of my life and thousands of dollars, went to college for 3 years instead, and aced it. I'm now into my 40s, and still haven't to this day figured out which part of any of the jobs I've had since would've benefited from me knowing anything about chemistry. [/rant] (yeah, after this much time, I'm still kinda bitter about it)
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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It's simple organizational politics and economics. FACT: CompSci was developed by Math Department. FACT: Because CompSci is a Math major, there are minimum requirements to be taught by the Math Department professors. Supposition: If Math Department loses control of Comp Sci major, math requirements would lessen causing Math Department to lose professors, staff and budget. Supposition: If Math Department loses professors, staff and budget then the Dean of the Math department would have less prestige and lower pay. Result: Math Department won't give it up CompSci major and the requirements for taking course in the math department stays high/ That said, many universities have business school programs with emphasis on information systems. The math requirements stop with applied calculus and statistics courses. The question is: Do you want to write compilers or business apps?
cat fud heer
Excellent response!..and one that agrees with my experience. In the late '80s I was pursuing a CS degree. I did great in the programming courses, but the calculus 1 (which I took twice) along with chemistry 1, and accounting kicked the crap out of me. X| I lost my scholarship and spent the next 10 years as a production drone. When I came back to school in the late '90s my degree was switched to CIS under the SOB. No more maths or 'science' classes were required. Too bad I still had to take all those horrible literature classes! :laugh:
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I did Electrical Engineering at Uni, the problem was the Engineering Dept taught maths to the Engineering students all was good the Maths lot take over as Engineer are not competent to teach maths, all but 5 people had to resit the maths. As others have said the Comp Sci programs tend to be in the maths faculty and so the math people seem to think you maths & more maths to pass. I have really only had to solve quadratic & simultaneous equations in anger (bit of cosine when playing woth RF waves...) no real need for half the stuff they rave about!:~
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Nothing specific to CS. All branches of Engineering - Mechanical, Civil, Aero, Electrical, Chemical, Instrumentation, etc. have significant amount of math at the University level. Being a Mechanical Engineer, my math focus was more on differential equations, whereas MIT[^] gives an entirely different focus for CS.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
During my CS course I learned mathematics for 5 semesters and loved it....then again it is a heredity thing i guess as my father is a mathematics teacher...
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Maths is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
