Why so much mathematics in CS?
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What do you consider an enormous amount of Math? I had to take first year calculus, which you needed to know to do most of the other science/engineering physics. If you didn't have a firm grasp of math to that level, you would struggle. We also had to take a second year of calculus. This was primarily focused on engineering related problems. And probability. All of the other math classes were some form of abstract or discrete mathematics. I believe we only needed to add 2-3 more math classes and we could earn a minor in math along with our Bachelor of Science. So it sounds like a lot of math, but most of it you need to be prepared to take some of the other classes. Then if you consider the ultimate purpose of higher education is to create prepared minds, then the amount of raw math seemed appropriate. --- Yes it has been useful, however, my jobs have not always required as much math as I would like. But even if I have forgotten how to practice most of the formula's, I can hold intelligent with other engineers that are not CS majors on a project that contains Electrical, Mechanical, and Chemical Engineers. My education prepared me.
Aye, I totally quote that. I find myself working on fast production lines with mechanical and electrical issues to be accounted for. I also help on the CAD drawings and electrical planning of the new models of machine we sell. And our ONLY need is identifying threats in food and medications by means of X-Ray - there enter Physics and Chemistry, in fact my boss is a Chemical Engineer. I worked also in robotics - physics all the way down there, from Computer Vision to movement.
Geek code v 3.12 GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I'm self taught, so I didn't study math much in the beginning, I did a bit down the road.
Jeremy Falcon
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Aye, I totally quote that. I find myself working on fast production lines with mechanical and electrical issues to be accounted for. I also help on the CAD drawings and electrical planning of the new models of machine we sell. And our ONLY need is identifying threats in food and medications by means of X-Ray - there enter Physics and Chemistry, in fact my boss is a Chemical Engineer. I worked also in robotics - physics all the way down there, from Computer Vision to movement.
Geek code v 3.12 GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
Yep, just because you don't use it directly, doesn't mean you don't need it. It's similar to sorting algorithms and other basic data structures. I haven't had to code one of those in years, because there are plenty of fantastic libraries that already work and allow me to focus on my job. But it's still helpful to know how to create them if I had to.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
As an engineer, I learned far more mathematics, and I've found a use for most of it. Considering that one of the most important functions of a computer is to crunch numbers and perform calculations that would be inefficient to do manually, this emphasis on mathematics is entirely appropriate.
Will Rogers never met me.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Math, I can see as being useful for a computer science degree. However, what would you make of chemistry? [rant] I didn't take any chemistry class in high school. When I applied to university, I was accepted, but was warned I had to take a chemistry class to catch up. The class was scheduled at the same time as one of my math courses. I brought up my scheduling conflict issue to the teachers from the respective classes, who in turn told me to talk to the university administration; admin told me to take it up with my teachers. That's when, as a kid, I finally realized that higher education is actually run like any for-profit business. They'll accept anyone and be glad to take your money, even knowing you can't possibly be at two lectures that are taking place at the same time; as long as you pay up, they're happy to watch you drop out. Realizing that, I told them to go f*ck themselves for wasting a year of my life and thousands of dollars, went to college for 3 years instead, and aced it. I'm now into my 40s, and still haven't to this day figured out which part of any of the jobs I've had since would've benefited from me knowing anything about chemistry. [/rant] (yeah, after this much time, I'm still kinda bitter about it)
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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It's simple organizational politics and economics. FACT: CompSci was developed by Math Department. FACT: Because CompSci is a Math major, there are minimum requirements to be taught by the Math Department professors. Supposition: If Math Department loses control of Comp Sci major, math requirements would lessen causing Math Department to lose professors, staff and budget. Supposition: If Math Department loses professors, staff and budget then the Dean of the Math department would have less prestige and lower pay. Result: Math Department won't give it up CompSci major and the requirements for taking course in the math department stays high/ That said, many universities have business school programs with emphasis on information systems. The math requirements stop with applied calculus and statistics courses. The question is: Do you want to write compilers or business apps?
cat fud heer
Excellent response!..and one that agrees with my experience. In the late '80s I was pursuing a CS degree. I did great in the programming courses, but the calculus 1 (which I took twice) along with chemistry 1, and accounting kicked the crap out of me. X| I lost my scholarship and spent the next 10 years as a production drone. When I came back to school in the late '90s my degree was switched to CIS under the SOB. No more maths or 'science' classes were required. Too bad I still had to take all those horrible literature classes! :laugh:
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I did Electrical Engineering at Uni, the problem was the Engineering Dept taught maths to the Engineering students all was good the Maths lot take over as Engineer are not competent to teach maths, all but 5 people had to resit the maths. As others have said the Comp Sci programs tend to be in the maths faculty and so the math people seem to think you maths & more maths to pass. I have really only had to solve quadratic & simultaneous equations in anger (bit of cosine when playing woth RF waves...) no real need for half the stuff they rave about!:~
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Nothing specific to CS. All branches of Engineering - Mechanical, Civil, Aero, Electrical, Chemical, Instrumentation, etc. have significant amount of math at the University level. Being a Mechanical Engineer, my math focus was more on differential equations, whereas MIT[^] gives an entirely different focus for CS.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
During my CS course I learned mathematics for 5 semesters and loved it....then again it is a heredity thing i guess as my father is a mathematics teacher...
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Maths is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
I think the Science part of CS is a clue. :) Much of what we know as CS has it's roots in branches of science very close to mathematics and seriously pre-dates most modern computers. For a less maths centric approach, I would suggest a related field of study, not CS. You can't water down CS by going easy on the maths, but you can avoid too much maths by choosing a less academic and theoretical field of study.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Take into consideration that the persons responsible for developing the cirriculum are the same ones who may have been involved in the initial development of computer systems. When I started in the industry, the Computer Science degree courses didn't exist. In order to approach a computer system, you hade to have a degree in engineering (which explains the need for hard sciences and mathematics). By comparison, low level training for electricians include courses in logic circuits and logic reduction/substitution.
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
My bachelor's degree program (class of 1984, computer engineering, Wright State University, go Raiders!) included 28 credit hours of math out of a 205 hour curriculum. This was 20 hours of calculus, 3 hours of matrix algebra, and a 5 hour course in differential equations. I've used the matrix algebra once, over a three month period, about 28 years ago. The part of my brain that stored that math education has been reformatted and now stores lines from old movies. The useful part of my math education was the vast amount of practice in learning how to identify, reason about, and solve problems. Everything we do is one of the infamous "word problems" that everyone in math classes despise.
Software Zen:
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It's simple organizational politics and economics. FACT: CompSci was developed by Math Department. FACT: Because CompSci is a Math major, there are minimum requirements to be taught by the Math Department professors. Supposition: If Math Department loses control of Comp Sci major, math requirements would lessen causing Math Department to lose professors, staff and budget. Supposition: If Math Department loses professors, staff and budget then the Dean of the Math department would have less prestige and lower pay. Result: Math Department won't give it up CompSci major and the requirements for taking course in the math department stays high/ That said, many universities have business school programs with emphasis on information systems. The math requirements stop with applied calculus and statistics courses. The question is: Do you want to write compilers or business apps?
cat fud heer
Spot On! Do not limit everyone.
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I did sum maths - in addition to the computer stuff. It divided the class but i'm positive it was integral to the course. Multiple students failed, and that's what differentiated them.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Depending on the field you choose, I'm working in robotics and industrial automation and even mostly of the time maths are not needed, sometimes you can find really hard things to solve...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
There's lots of paths to success out there. Math may not be necessary to be successful in the CS field but actually neither is formal education in CS (many readers cringing). I have a degree in math and write programs for a living (C# and Fortran) to perform mathematically based functions. It depends on what the focus of your programming is. In some areas it would be vital. Mostly I liken it to calisthenics for the mind. Give me 2 programmers with equal CS background and I would take the one that has a stronger math aptitude. But, I am clearly biased.
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Agree about the physics! Many, many moons ago when I started Uni I was aiming for a degree in Physics. That lasted until second year. The day my lecturer put a double integral sign up on the blackboard (I said it was long ago) was the day I knew I would have to find something else... so computing science it was!
And it gets plenty worse (or better, depending on your view of math) in physics after double integrals. But then, in CS, there's the C and the S, isn't there - and who would want to miss the S if it puts you effectively in a higher echelon?
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My niece started to learn CS some 6 weeks ago. I just realized that nothing changed since I left...They still pump an enormous amount of mathematics into students. I'm aware that, good logical thought is a must-have for CS, and that good mathematics means the same, but even so! Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies? Was it really helpful?
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Mathematics is the language of science and logic. Understanding it can make your understanding of the language of programming much easier. As for my own studies, since I hold a bachelor's degree in Mathematical Sciences and a master's degree in Statistics, I would say definitely I learned a lot of math in my studies and it was very instrumental in my learning of programming in general. Granted, my first programming gig was primarily because I was a statistician first and programmer second (I worked for a software house that produced mathematical and statistical libraries).
Christopher Reed "The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."
