work contract question
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Whenever I have had clauses like that in a contract I have simply asked the question. Usually they say "Oh, no, that's just if you do something at work - outside work doesn't count!" At which point I ask them to change the contract and/or confirm that in writing.
.\\axxx
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
I hope you haven't signed the contract with that clause included.
Super Lloyd wrote:
You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company.
Change the contract to exclude work not pertaining to the company or industry the company is in. A lot of people do not know that you can alter the contract before signing. It is a negotiation until you sign.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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I hope you haven't signed the contract with that clause included.
Super Lloyd wrote:
You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company.
Change the contract to exclude work not pertaining to the company or industry the company is in. A lot of people do not know that you can alter the contract before signing. It is a negotiation until you sign.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
yes, going to negotiate! :)
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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Whenever I have had clauses like that in a contract I have simply asked the question. Usually they say "Oh, no, that's just if you do something at work - outside work doesn't count!" At which point I ask them to change the contract and/or confirm that in writing.
.\\axxx
Just asked!
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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Just asked!
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Super Lloyd wrote:
Just asked!
And why did you do that? Just override the contract already! You have taken over the world, remember? :-D
Your time will come, if you let it be right.
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I hope you haven't signed the contract with that clause included.
Super Lloyd wrote:
You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company.
Change the contract to exclude work not pertaining to the company or industry the company is in. A lot of people do not know that you can alter the contract before signing. It is a negotiation until you sign.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
JimmyRopes wrote:
It is a negotiation until you sign.
That's actually not true. The only reason you sign a contract is so that it is undeniable that you were aware of its contents; As soon as you have seen it you are bound by it unless you can show that negotiations are taking place. If you don't sign, but continue to work / get paid, then you are deemed to have agreed to the contract - unless you can show that it is still being negotiated. Of course, making modifications and then signing and returning to the employer puts the same conditions on them. In the real world, as opposed to a lawyers office, it's far easier just to ask the company to make the change / explain in writing!
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
If you ask or demand the contract be modified, you run the risk of losing the gig or being labeled a trouble maker. I would have a casual discussion with the person in charge. And then follow up with an email saying, "Just to clarify my understanding of what we talked about this morning, I retain rights to the side project I'm working on in my spare time....Correct?" Print and keep the email.
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Just asked!
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Super Lloyd wrote:
Just asked!
And why did you do that? Just override the contract already! You have been taking over the world since 1371, remember? ;P
Your time will come, if you let it be right.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
It is a negotiation until you sign.
That's actually not true. The only reason you sign a contract is so that it is undeniable that you were aware of its contents; As soon as you have seen it you are bound by it unless you can show that negotiations are taking place. If you don't sign, but continue to work / get paid, then you are deemed to have agreed to the contract - unless you can show that it is still being negotiated. Of course, making modifications and then signing and returning to the employer puts the same conditions on them. In the real world, as opposed to a lawyers office, it's far easier just to ask the company to make the change / explain in writing!
PooperPig - Coming Soon
_Maxxx_ wrote:
That's actually not true.
Yes it is. I do not remember any contract for consulting work as an independent contractor that I signed without first making changes to it.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
If you don't sign, but continue to work / get paid, then you are deemed to have agreed to the contract
I never work without a contract. :doh: That goes without saying. Anyone who provides professional services without having a contract is not being professional.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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If you ask or demand the contract be modified, you run the risk of losing the gig or being labeled a trouble maker. I would have a casual discussion with the person in charge. And then follow up with an email saying, "Just to clarify my understanding of what we talked about this morning, I retain rights to the side project I'm working on in my spare time....Correct?" Print and keep the email.
I already talk about that before over the phone ... In fact the PM just emailed me he was sorry and going to fix it soon! So here we go, fingers crossed! ;P (making only reasonable demand so far...)
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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If you ask or demand the contract be modified, you run the risk of losing the gig or being labeled a trouble maker. I would have a casual discussion with the person in charge. And then follow up with an email saying, "Just to clarify my understanding of what we talked about this morning, I retain rights to the side project I'm working on in my spare time....Correct?" Print and keep the email.
Steve Wellens wrote:
If you ask or demand the contract be modified, you run the risk of losing the gig or being labeled a trouble maker.
There is no shame in asking for a contract that is equitable for all parties involved. It is called "business acumen".
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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I already talk about that before over the phone ... In fact the PM just emailed me he was sorry and going to fix it soon! So here we go, fingers crossed! ;P (making only reasonable demand so far...)
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Super Lloyd wrote:
making only reasonable demand so far...
As long as your demands are reasonable they will respect you for making them.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
You really need to ask a lawyer which I don't think describes most members of CP. Intellectual property law varies from country to country. In Australia your employer cannot take away your rights. They cannot apply catchall phrases to the whole of your life which interfere with your right to make a living. You may like to read this: http://www.mondaq.com/australia/x/113188/Patent/Copyright+and+employees+Who+owns+what[^] IMHO - I think you are able to sign this as it covers work you have done under their direction but you may like to challenge the wording.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I'm about to start new work. I specified that I wanted to keep ownership of software created on my own time (which hasn't been released yet but is making good progress) I have the work contract in front of me now and the following section leave me .. mmm.. unsure...
Intellectual Property Rights Any work or material created, discovered or improved by you during the course of your employment with the company which is capable of being protected by letters patent, design, registration copyright or any other form of protection will belong absolutely to the Company and you agree to execute any document required to give effect to this You agree to waive in favour if the Company, its licensees and successor in title and morals rights you may have in both existing and future works created by you in the course of your employments with the company. For avoidance of doubt, the company shall have no rights to any intellectual property developed by the employee prior to their employment with the company.
Now I wonder, what become of my (yet unreleased) home project in those condition? Should I simply released the unfinished version now and simply update it? How the prior development would be proved? Anyhow I won't start before 1 month so I can easily put out a simple installer and have an embryonic software and website ready...
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Generally you can get away with doing work outside of your contracted hours, if you don't use the companies hardware, and the product is not in competition with whichever product/service your company provides. Sadly you do get some companies who believe they own you when they give you a salary and will milk you for every cent you have if they find out you do anything outside of the company.
My plan is to live forever ... so far so good
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Generally you can get away with doing work outside of your contracted hours, if you don't use the companies hardware, and the product is not in competition with whichever product/service your company provides. Sadly you do get some companies who believe they own you when they give you a salary and will milk you for every cent you have if they find out you do anything outside of the company.
My plan is to live forever ... so far so good
Yeah, I just want to make clear that little point of detail! :-D
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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You really need to ask a lawyer which I don't think describes most members of CP. Intellectual property law varies from country to country. In Australia your employer cannot take away your rights. They cannot apply catchall phrases to the whole of your life which interfere with your right to make a living. You may like to read this: http://www.mondaq.com/australia/x/113188/Patent/Copyright+and+employees+Who+owns+what[^] IMHO - I think you are able to sign this as it covers work you have done under their direction but you may like to challenge the wording.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Interesting!
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
That's actually not true.
Yes it is. I do not remember any contract for consulting work as an independent contractor that I signed without first making changes to it.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
If you don't sign, but continue to work / get paid, then you are deemed to have agreed to the contract
I never work without a contract. :doh: That goes without saying. Anyone who provides professional services without having a contract is not being professional.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
It makes no difference what you remember - any agreement between two people, whether verbally, in writing or dripped in morse code in blood, is enforceable as a contractual agreement; the reason for signatures is merely obtaining proof that both parties have the same understanding.
JimmyRopes wrote:
I never work without a contract. :doh: That goes without saying.
In the real world it certainly does not go without saying - as lots and lots of people do work without written contracts.
JimmyRopes wrote:
Anyone who provides professional services without having a contract is not being professional.
Sure - and when it's your first week on the job, with a big organisation, and you're new (maybe even your first job outside of the chip shop) you just march into HR and refuse to work until they've provided you with a contract in writing to which you agree? Sure.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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If you ask or demand the contract be modified, you run the risk of losing the gig or being labeled a trouble maker. I would have a casual discussion with the person in charge. And then follow up with an email saying, "Just to clarify my understanding of what we talked about this morning, I retain rights to the side project I'm working on in my spare time....Correct?" Print and keep the email.
Steve Wellens wrote:
ou run the risk of losing the gig or being labeled a trouble maker
Wow I have never heard of anyone losing a gig for negotiating a contract, I would consider it a basic precept to contracting that you understand and agree with the content of the contract. I regularly ask for changes to a contract if I am not comfortable with the terms.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH