What is so bad/wrong/terrible about Windows 8.1?
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Work environment: Windows 7 Enterprise Home environment: Windows 8.1 I like the 'Start' button Windows 7, but, being in a corporate environment, we get patches pushed when someone else decides and the laptop will restart after a defined period. No, I can't shut it off. So, the auto-restart isn't an issue - I'm going to get auto-restart either way. On Windows 8.1, we have an account for my wife and myself; a separate account for our daughter. I like being able to use parental controls to limit what she sees and limit the amount of time she can be on the computer. For a home machine, I haven't found anything issues to complain about.\ Is the layout different? Yes, but the layout was different going from a green screen in college to Windows 3, and then again on Windows 95... Change is constant. Tim
Tim Carmichael wrote:
Change is constant.
True. It would be nice if we'd only commit those changes that are actually improvements, cause quite often they are just that - changes.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
Agree with Ian. I hate that forced (automatic) reboot which is really very annoying. I have to restore(& load) all tabs of browser after that.
thatraja
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Two MAJOR issues: Usability! Win 8 is a totally different paradigm that Win 7. For a laptop and the Windows Phone the Tiles were cute, but for a Corporate environment, no one really wants to work like that. Security! Win 8 has gone completely overboard with security. As a developer your app can only write to it's own folder or the cloud... so I can't build an app that write app that write to another app's folder.. something I've done in the past.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Kevin Marois wrote:
As a developer your app can only write to it's own folder or the cloud...
Only if you're writing a don't-call-it-Metro "app". If you write a proper application, you can still do all the same stuff you could do in 7.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Work environment: Windows 7 Enterprise Home environment: Windows 8.1 I like the 'Start' button Windows 7, but, being in a corporate environment, we get patches pushed when someone else decides and the laptop will restart after a defined period. No, I can't shut it off. So, the auto-restart isn't an issue - I'm going to get auto-restart either way. On Windows 8.1, we have an account for my wife and myself; a separate account for our daughter. I like being able to use parental controls to limit what she sees and limit the amount of time she can be on the computer. For a home machine, I haven't found anything issues to complain about.\ Is the layout different? Yes, but the layout was different going from a green screen in college to Windows 3, and then again on Windows 95... Change is constant. Tim
Tim Carmichael wrote:
Is the layout different? Yes, but the layout was different going from a green screen in college to Windows 3, and then again on Windows 95... Change is constant.
Ah, but it doesn't have to be. It's a balancing act, between progress (change is good!) and what is already good and familiar (change is bad!) I see it as kind of like the progression of cooking (speaking from personal experience here...) DOS and earlier were kind of like PB&J sandwiches. Basic, but kept you fed. Windows 3/3.1 etc were like microwave ramen. Slightly more difficult to make, but still, kept you fed. Windows 95 was a step up to grilled cheese. Getting better, but still, not all that great. Windows 98 was adding ham to that grilled cheese. Windows 2000 was pairing cream of tomato soup with that grilled ham and cheese. Windows ME was back to ramen. Windows XP was a medium sirloin with a loaded baked potato. Close, but not quite there yet. Windows 7 was a perfectly cooked rare filet mignon with a loaded baked potato and asparagus with hollandaise. Perfection. Now Windows 8... That is like you took a look at that beautiful meal that was Windows 7... And got greedy. You said 'I want more. I can do better.' But what you ended up with was an over-seasoned, over-cooked, filet, a potato with flavors that don't pair well, and hollandaise with a consistency that more closely resembles cold butter, than maple syrup. All because you couldn't leave well enough alone. Now your wife is upset with you because you ruined her favorite meal, and you had to order pizza. Progress only comes from experimentation, and we certainly learn more from our failures than our successes. Still, you have to learn when to leave well enough alone. Microsoft has been in business long enough now that they should have already learned that lesson.
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I don't use Windows 8.0 or 8.1, and have never made the switch to it. I have no doubt there are improvements from Windows 7, but these were never really significant enough for me to "upgrade". As a primarily desktop user, what really killed it for me is the UX. Although it may seem like a non-factor at first, it is actually a huge factor due to its significant changes from Win 7. What Win 8 tried to do was create an OS that fits all. This simply does not work, my desktop is not a tablet, my tablet is not a desktop. The start screen while optimized for a touch system, is not intuitive for a non-touch screen. I certainly have no desire to touch my desktop monitor. When 99% of the time I spend would be in desktop mode, it makes no sense to exit desktop mode, open a start screen that blocks my whole view, just to open another app on the desktop mode. Then you have things like duplicated functional apps due to the newer metro store apps. Should I use IE in metro mode or use the desktop IE? The Metro UI is just sour icing on top that makes it worst. They brought the whole UI to Windows Server, and now it's easier to shut down the machine than to log off. The start screen is even more irrelevant on a server. Can I get used to these changes? Yes I certainly can, but I am much more satisfied and happy with staying at Windows 7. Although... Win 10 might change my mind.
Amen. Well said.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
More items, based on what other's have said. In a corporate environment, with support for Windows Server 2003 ending this year, servers are being replaced with Windows Server 2012. Yes, the Windows 8 version has found its way into the server world. It took me a while, even using Windows 8, to find what I wanted in WS 2012, but I did find it, and now, I'm used to it.
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
Is the layout different? Yes, but the layout was different going from a green screen in college to Windows 3, and then again on Windows 95... Change is constant.
Ah, but it doesn't have to be. It's a balancing act, between progress (change is good!) and what is already good and familiar (change is bad!) I see it as kind of like the progression of cooking (speaking from personal experience here...) DOS and earlier were kind of like PB&J sandwiches. Basic, but kept you fed. Windows 3/3.1 etc were like microwave ramen. Slightly more difficult to make, but still, kept you fed. Windows 95 was a step up to grilled cheese. Getting better, but still, not all that great. Windows 98 was adding ham to that grilled cheese. Windows 2000 was pairing cream of tomato soup with that grilled ham and cheese. Windows ME was back to ramen. Windows XP was a medium sirloin with a loaded baked potato. Close, but not quite there yet. Windows 7 was a perfectly cooked rare filet mignon with a loaded baked potato and asparagus with hollandaise. Perfection. Now Windows 8... That is like you took a look at that beautiful meal that was Windows 7... And got greedy. You said 'I want more. I can do better.' But what you ended up with was an over-seasoned, over-cooked, filet, a potato with flavors that don't pair well, and hollandaise with a consistency that more closely resembles cold butter, than maple syrup. All because you couldn't leave well enough alone. Now your wife is upset with you because you ruined her favorite meal, and you had to order pizza. Progress only comes from experimentation, and we certainly learn more from our failures than our successes. Still, you have to learn when to leave well enough alone. Microsoft has been in business long enough now that they should have already learned that lesson.
I note that you forgot Vista. I bet you'll forget Win 8 even quicker.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I note that you forgot Vista. I bet you'll forget Win 8 even quicker.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
None of what you say about 8 matters to me.
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
Change is constant.
True. It would be nice if we'd only commit those changes that are actually improvements, cause quite often they are just that - changes.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Right, change for change's sake is user-hostile. Let me pick which changes to activate!
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I note that you forgot Vista. I bet you'll forget Win 8 even quicker.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Oh right, Vista. That would be like you bought a sirloin, but they'd mislabeled it and it was really a flank steak. Surprise! Fat and gristle!
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People try to hate new things and changes in the beginning... Then they accept them! I have been using Windows 8.1 since the day it was released, always worked as a charm for me. If I have to hate it, I should be able to at least come up with a single critical point of view, which I can't find, other than it being a product that has to be bought; which people think is bad.
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote:
People try to hate new things and changes in the beginning... Then they accept them!
Yup. Windows Vista, OS/2, WebTV, the G4 Cube, Google Buzz, the Newton, Net PC, PCjr, and, of course, Clippy... History is riddled with examples.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Y'know what's really funny? I still have a Vista PC in use, mainly as a file server, but I still sometimes sit at it. I think I'm one of the nine people in the world who didn't have a problem with Vista -- the only thing I objected to was the "wow factor", but the first time I booted the PC, it asked me if I wanted the "wow factor" cr@p, I said "NO!", and it never bothered me about it again. It was lovely and fast, with all that memory that was added to handle the "wow" being freed up.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I note that you forgot Vista. I bet you'll forget Win 8 even quicker.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Vista was not forgotten, as it was in effect an unpolished version of Windows 7, so with that analogy I would consider it the cooking process. Literally under the hood they are identical, but because it's still cooking it doesn't have the same flavours.
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I haven't worked with win 8, but everytime I'm working on any of our servers I'm thinking up new cruel punishments for whoever it was that decided a tablet operating system was fitting for a server. I'm not going into details as to why, as Griff has described it all quite well in another post.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
It actually works well with future MS tech, I cite hololens. Think about it, tapping a virtual button makes sense, you don't even have to be at the machine except for hardware maintenace, just look at it, the "menu" buttons come up, you "tap" the one you want in the virtual space and the world is at your finger tips.
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Vista was not forgotten, as it was in effect an unpolished version of Windows 7, so with that analogy I would consider it the cooking process. Literally under the hood they are identical, but because it's still cooking it doesn't have the same flavours.
That's a very good analogy. How would you react if you went to a restaurant, and they gave you uncooked and part-cooked ingredients, then charged you the full price? You'd never go back there, right? If it weren't for the fact that Windows is pre-installed on 99.9999% of home PCs, they would lose a huge chunk of the home PC market. If more people had to choose and install their operating systems, more people would make different choices. But Windows has that huge audience captive, and no-one treats a captive audience with respect.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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That's a very good analogy. How would you react if you went to a restaurant, and they gave you uncooked and part-cooked ingredients, then charged you the full price? You'd never go back there, right? If it weren't for the fact that Windows is pre-installed on 99.9999% of home PCs, they would lose a huge chunk of the home PC market. If more people had to choose and install their operating systems, more people would make different choices. But Windows has that huge audience captive, and no-one treats a captive audience with respect.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Or you could think of it as s chef trying to come up with a new item menu, it takes a few rounds of trial and error before you get the recipe right. That's what Vista was, the trial and error. A little to much chili. The chef experiments a bit more, and he came up with Win 7, with just the right amount of kick to it. Every chef requires guinea pigs to try out his new creations.
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Or you could think of it as s chef trying to come up with a new item menu, it takes a few rounds of trial and error before you get the recipe right. That's what Vista was, the trial and error. A little to much chili. The chef experiments a bit more, and he came up with Win 7, with just the right amount of kick to it. Every chef requires guinea pigs to try out his new creations.
But no professional chef serves a dish that he knows to be bad. Why are you making excuses for them? Especially to me, one of the nine people who liked Vista. For me, they should simply have put no effort at all into the "wow!" thing, and spent more on fixing broken stuff, but I didn't have any major gripes with it (except the "wow!" thing, of course).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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But no professional chef serves a dish that he knows to be bad. Why are you making excuses for them? Especially to me, one of the nine people who liked Vista. For me, they should simply have put no effort at all into the "wow!" thing, and spent more on fixing broken stuff, but I didn't have any major gripes with it (except the "wow!" thing, of course).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I'm not making excuses for anyone. A professional chef will toy around with things til they are to his liking and then he will use guinea pigs to see if other people like it. It's the same deal, and it applies to anything software related, just because people on the inside like it does not mean people on the outside will. My original reply was because listed various flavours of Windows over the years to various food stuff and someone piped in that they "forgot" Vista, but I don't think they did. As I said, Vista and Win 7 are identical under the hood, I was using the analogy someone else stated about the various flavours of Windows over the years, going from Ramen noodles to a nicely cooked fillet mignon. Quite literally Win 7 IS Vista, just cooked differently to give it wider appeal.
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I note that you forgot Vista. I bet you'll forget Win 8 even quicker.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
But I though Windows 8 was the new name for Vista... (:
