Google, EU, and $6B
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It's the politicians, bank directors, Bilderbergs, Illuminati etc. worldwide that are causing these problems.
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I live just down the road from the bilderberg hotel. My phone can't get a signal when I walk past it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I live just down the road from the bilderberg hotel. My phone can't get a signal when I walk past it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Well duh, only the lizardmen that secretly rule the earth get that signal ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Well duh, only the lizardmen that secretly rule the earth get that signal ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Do you know that I've actually shaken that idiot's hand? It was back in the days when he was a snooker commentator for Auntie. What's interesting, though, is that everyone, including the snooker players, thought he was a bleeping looney, even them. He's just a marketing moron that wasn't even clever enough to keep a job in marketing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Do you know that I've actually shaken that idiot's hand? It was back in the days when he was a snooker commentator for Auntie. What's interesting, though, is that everyone, including the snooker players, thought he was a bleeping looney, even them. He's just a marketing moron that wasn't even clever enough to keep a job in marketing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
that idiot
Mark_Wallace wrote:
he was a bleeping looney
Mark_Wallace wrote:
a marketing moron
Mark_Wallace wrote:
wasn't even clever enough to keep a job in marketing
Does that apply to all of them?[^]
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
that idiot
Mark_Wallace wrote:
he was a bleeping looney
Mark_Wallace wrote:
a marketing moron
Mark_Wallace wrote:
wasn't even clever enough to keep a job in marketing
Does that apply to all of them?[^]
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Well that's a funny misunderstanding :laugh: I really can't imagine that guy to have any sense or smarts in him. Having the dumbs pays pretty well[^] though :sigh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Well that's a funny misunderstanding :laugh: I really can't imagine that guy to have any sense or smarts in him. Having the dumbs pays pretty well[^] though :sigh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
If you're willing to be the worst kind of person that can be, you can make money out of it. Thankfully, though many are called, most say "Fuck that; it's not nice!"
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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So, by and large, they're going to fine Google for not giving fair and even results from searches. Someone should remind them that paid positioning is how Google makes its money. They probably know this - so why? Well - think "Greece" - no not the fries available in the Google cafeteria - but the nation going financially down the tubes. The EU needs to help out Greece by writing off the loans and/or giving them more money. But from where . . . oh, yeah . . . now I get it. Were I Google, I'd make an example of them: stuff it up your collective croissant - and pull all my resources (i.e., jobs) from the EU - and then - if the EU wishes to block Google, well, we know what that says about the EU. As for China? I'd just pull the Elephanting plug on them rather than limit searches per their government's recreation of reality.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
How does the EU distinguish between paid positioning and people gaming the search engine? (Google and Bing have gotten pretty good at detecting that.)
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Why does the number of users matter? The law either applies to all or it applies to nobody. If you're selectively applying a law, then it isn't a law, it's corruption.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
so you start with the biggest offender not someone virtually no one in the EU has heard of
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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So, by and large, they're going to fine Google for not giving fair and even results from searches. Someone should remind them that paid positioning is how Google makes its money. They probably know this - so why? Well - think "Greece" - no not the fries available in the Google cafeteria - but the nation going financially down the tubes. The EU needs to help out Greece by writing off the loans and/or giving them more money. But from where . . . oh, yeah . . . now I get it. Were I Google, I'd make an example of them: stuff it up your collective croissant - and pull all my resources (i.e., jobs) from the EU - and then - if the EU wishes to block Google, well, we know what that says about the EU. As for China? I'd just pull the Elephanting plug on them rather than limit searches per their government's recreation of reality.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Oh sure - Greece owes the EU hundreds of billions. Squeezing Google for €6 billion isn't going to make much of a difference in this case. To suggest it would is, well, crass. You sound like you've never been to Europe - you should visit, we don't all live in mud huts out here. European governments do pull dumb tricks to get cash out of each other - like this one[^]. Pinching money from corporations like Google? No.
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so you start with the biggest offender not someone virtually no one in the EU has heard of
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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If the same banners don't appear across all search engines, then we'll know what the EU's intentions were, won't we?
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
you think that if the EU win against google they wont chase the others? they have precedent and have defeated the most powerful and no we wont because their are search engines that have such a small footprint as to make them irrelevant, now these may have a huge following in OTHER countries the EU is only concerned with the EU it looks like you feel that Google shouldn't be held to account because some irrelevant search engine is also non compliant despite them being the Biggest offender!
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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you think that if the EU win against google they wont chase the others? they have precedent and have defeated the most powerful and no we wont because their are search engines that have such a small footprint as to make them irrelevant, now these may have a huge following in OTHER countries the EU is only concerned with the EU it looks like you feel that Google shouldn't be held to account because some irrelevant search engine is also non compliant despite them being the Biggest offender!
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Bing? Yahoo? The EU saw easy cash (in a time when it really needs cash - it's screwed as much as it thinks it can get from the UK for this year), so needs to look for other "donors".
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
it looks like you feel that Google shouldn't be held to account because some irrelevant search engine is also non compliant despite them being the Biggest offender!
I'm no fan of Google personally, but I don't like unfairness (perhaps it's a British thing?). Google should not be the only company subjected to this "rule". There's a lot of corruption in many EU member countries and I think this is a symptom of this culture coming through. Make a law an apply it to all, not just to those you think are worth shaking down.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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So, by and large, they're going to fine Google for not giving fair and even results from searches. Someone should remind them that paid positioning is how Google makes its money. They probably know this - so why? Well - think "Greece" - no not the fries available in the Google cafeteria - but the nation going financially down the tubes. The EU needs to help out Greece by writing off the loans and/or giving them more money. But from where . . . oh, yeah . . . now I get it. Were I Google, I'd make an example of them: stuff it up your collective croissant - and pull all my resources (i.e., jobs) from the EU - and then - if the EU wishes to block Google, well, we know what that says about the EU. As for China? I'd just pull the Elephanting plug on them rather than limit searches per their government's recreation of reality.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I live in Switzerland, which - contrary to some US companies' belief (but that is a rant for another time) - is not part of the EU. Consider me neutral on that matter. I've read many (not all) of the comments, and all I can get away from this is that none of you really understand what this is all about. I don't say I do, but at least I've tried, and from the little I know it's obvious none of the points made about the EU in this thread are valid, or at the very least founded on something tangible. Just to make one point: 6B$ wouldn't make or break Greece. 600B$ wouldn't either, it would buy them at most a few years time. But back to topic. The main issue with Google is not that they're trying to get paid, or maximizing their income. It's not even that they don't clearly state how the search results they present to the users are lopsided in favor of certain clients. The main issue is that Google Search is the de facto standard search engine in Europe, and as a result, uninformed users will turn to them rather than looking at and evaluating alternatives. This puts Google in a quasi-monopolist position where they can dictate how search results are presented to users in general. This opposes the idea of an open market, where the user can pick a different product, because many users are not aware or technically competent enough to pick a better suited service. That said, realistically, many users will never be able to conciously choose the right search engine for themselves, therefore the only feasible solution is for the market leader to offer an unbiased service as a default. They may offer 'improved' and biased services in any way they like, as long as they are not used as the default. They could even introduce a new virtual currency (g-points?) as micropayments for users that use the biased search engine rather than the unbiased default. Those payments could then be used in return for other services and and advanced features elsewhere. Just to make a suggestion. Other companies have introduced micro-payment currencies with great sccess, I wonder why Google hasn't tried this yet?
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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Bing? Yahoo? The EU saw easy cash (in a time when it really needs cash - it's screwed as much as it thinks it can get from the UK for this year), so needs to look for other "donors".
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
it looks like you feel that Google shouldn't be held to account because some irrelevant search engine is also non compliant despite them being the Biggest offender!
I'm no fan of Google personally, but I don't like unfairness (perhaps it's a British thing?). Google should not be the only company subjected to this "rule". There's a lot of corruption in many EU member countries and I think this is a symptom of this culture coming through. Make a law an apply it to all, not just to those you think are worth shaking down.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
so you think that the EU should take on ALL the search engines AT ONCE? well that's not going to cost anything is it? sense would say that if you cannot get them to agree without dragging them to court then you go after the biggest, this makes getting the others easier (if Google loses most will fall in line and any that don't will be extremely hard pressed to defend themselves in court) if the EU loses then it just has the (big) bill for taking on Google and not 30+ other cases as well and before you suggest taking on a small one first do you think the EU winning against a minnow would persuade Google to change (it never has in the past)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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so you think that the EU should take on ALL the search engines AT ONCE? well that's not going to cost anything is it? sense would say that if you cannot get them to agree without dragging them to court then you go after the biggest, this makes getting the others easier (if Google loses most will fall in line and any that don't will be extremely hard pressed to defend themselves in court) if the EU loses then it just has the (big) bill for taking on Google and not 30+ other cases as well and before you suggest taking on a small one first do you think the EU winning against a minnow would persuade Google to change (it never has in the past)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
I don't think the EU should take on any search engine. If they want, they can introduce a law or industry regulation and enforce it across the board. They do the same with everything else: banking, manufacturing, agriculture, etc. It's a shakedown, plain and simple. Nothing to do with laws or regulations. I'll add that I think that the EU has bigger issues to deal with than silly banners on a single website. I'd prefer UK law to be making the decisions for us in the UK to be honest. And end users won't benefit from yet another silly version of the "the internet uses cookies, do you accept?" type regulation that cost the industry millions for bugger all.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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I live in Switzerland, which - contrary to some US companies' belief (but that is a rant for another time) - is not part of the EU. Consider me neutral on that matter. I've read many (not all) of the comments, and all I can get away from this is that none of you really understand what this is all about. I don't say I do, but at least I've tried, and from the little I know it's obvious none of the points made about the EU in this thread are valid, or at the very least founded on something tangible. Just to make one point: 6B$ wouldn't make or break Greece. 600B$ wouldn't either, it would buy them at most a few years time. But back to topic. The main issue with Google is not that they're trying to get paid, or maximizing their income. It's not even that they don't clearly state how the search results they present to the users are lopsided in favor of certain clients. The main issue is that Google Search is the de facto standard search engine in Europe, and as a result, uninformed users will turn to them rather than looking at and evaluating alternatives. This puts Google in a quasi-monopolist position where they can dictate how search results are presented to users in general. This opposes the idea of an open market, where the user can pick a different product, because many users are not aware or technically competent enough to pick a better suited service. That said, realistically, many users will never be able to conciously choose the right search engine for themselves, therefore the only feasible solution is for the market leader to offer an unbiased service as a default. They may offer 'improved' and biased services in any way they like, as long as they are not used as the default. They could even introduce a new virtual currency (g-points?) as micropayments for users that use the biased search engine rather than the unbiased default. Those payments could then be used in return for other services and and advanced features elsewhere. Just to make a suggestion. Other companies have introduced micro-payment currencies with great sccess, I wonder why Google hasn't tried this yet?
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
Your first premise, about being Swiss and thus neutral, is a premise I reject. Historically, as well as in the current context, this is a _de facto_myth.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
The main issue is that Google Search is the de facto standard search engine in Europe, and as a result, uninformed users will turn to them rather than looking at and evaluating alternatives.
If, as you claim, the laziness of users to get up and find an alternative this is the reason, it's far more nauseating than I had envisioned. In the US, although Google is the main search engine, it has competition. So - are US surfers, as a whole, more intelligent than Europeans? I leave that answer to you, as you've have implied that. (I'd only touch on that in a humorous thread). How hard is it to type "Bing" into a browser? Maybe even a Euro-search-engine. There are such things, aren't there? OK - so per your analysis, Europeans are flocking to Google. Thus, Google should be punished for people liking their FREE service. That's so F'd up I don't know where to start. Perhaps with this: if this is truly the reasoning behind the legal action it proves (in my opinion, yet again) that when the EU and it's de facto affiliates cannot compete they attack and destroy. Hence, now enhanced by your enlightenment as to the whys and wherefores, my original premise is reinforced: Google should leave the EU, block EU users, and call it good riddance. If they decide they want it back (as apparently they're clueless in terms of solving the problem, themselves) then the EU should be charged that 6B Euros/Year for access - as a reminder. Finally, I must thank you. For, whether your view as to the reasoning behind this is correct or not, it shows $oak-the-Yank$ a mind-set that is undeniable.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Oh sure - Greece owes the EU hundreds of billions. Squeezing Google for €6 billion isn't going to make much of a difference in this case. To suggest it would is, well, crass. You sound like you've never been to Europe - you should visit, we don't all live in mud huts out here. European governments do pull dumb tricks to get cash out of each other - like this one[^]. Pinching money from corporations like Google? No.
Suggesting the EU wouldn't try to grab money from anyone they can isn't crass, it's historical. In particular, they love to target large US companies. As for having been to Europe (and other far off lands) - I don't know your age, but it's rather likely I'd been to Europe before you. More than once.
SpoonLord wrote:
Pinching money from corporations like Google? No.
They certainly didn't pull back from pinching money from Microsoft because they included their own software (e.g., Media Player) with Windows. They fined them big bucks and made them make a version without it. Why? Allegedly because European customers were too laid back to bother getting an alternative audio engine (free or otherwise) because they were given one for free. Windows was the dominant browser - another reason to single them out - but FREE alternatives were and available. Who's fault, then, is the problem? Same thing, according to another poster, is Google's problem: Europeans don't bother looking for an alternative so Google must be punished.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Your first premise, about being Swiss and thus neutral, is a premise I reject. Historically, as well as in the current context, this is a _de facto_myth.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
The main issue is that Google Search is the de facto standard search engine in Europe, and as a result, uninformed users will turn to them rather than looking at and evaluating alternatives.
If, as you claim, the laziness of users to get up and find an alternative this is the reason, it's far more nauseating than I had envisioned. In the US, although Google is the main search engine, it has competition. So - are US surfers, as a whole, more intelligent than Europeans? I leave that answer to you, as you've have implied that. (I'd only touch on that in a humorous thread). How hard is it to type "Bing" into a browser? Maybe even a Euro-search-engine. There are such things, aren't there? OK - so per your analysis, Europeans are flocking to Google. Thus, Google should be punished for people liking their FREE service. That's so F'd up I don't know where to start. Perhaps with this: if this is truly the reasoning behind the legal action it proves (in my opinion, yet again) that when the EU and it's de facto affiliates cannot compete they attack and destroy. Hence, now enhanced by your enlightenment as to the whys and wherefores, my original premise is reinforced: Google should leave the EU, block EU users, and call it good riddance. If they decide they want it back (as apparently they're clueless in terms of solving the problem, themselves) then the EU should be charged that 6B Euros/Year for access - as a reminder. Finally, I must thank you. For, whether your view as to the reasoning behind this is correct or not, it shows $oak-the-Yank$ a mind-set that is undeniable.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Your first premise, about being Swiss and thus neutral, is a premise I reject.
I did not state that the Swiss are and have been neutral at all times. I was only making a point that where I live, whatever the EU does has little or no effect. Today, more than for many decades, Switzerland is at odds with the EU. I won't bother with you about the details, just accept that whatever comes of the Google case, Switzerland will not be affected either way! Unless of course, Google changes their busines model, for the better or worse of the entire world.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
If, as you claim, the laziness of users to get up and find an alternative
Laziness is certainly part of the reason, but that is not what the EU objects against: everyone has the right to be lazy after all ;-) The main issue is that a large portion of the smartphone and tablet userbase has almost no computer knowledge at all: these people know how to open whatever browser is installed on their device per default, and search for a topic that interests them with the search engine that is installed by default. Many are not even aware there are alternatives: they haven't been using these devices before, they are not used to machines offering alternate programs in the first place: have you ever downloaded the "toast-it" app to your toaster? no? Why might that be?
W∴ Balboos wrote:
OK - so per your analysis, Europeans are flocking to Google
Not my analysis, according to the analyisis of the EU agency Google is used by 90% of the user base. Can't say how exactly they measured, but even if they're off by a considerable amount, it's save to say Goggle is in the lead by a solid margin.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
FREE service
I object to that. Google takes your data and sells it, either directly or indirectly through targeted ads. That doesn't automatically deduct money from your pocket, but it does lead to some people buying stuff that otherwise they wouldn't have bought, or in some cases, wouldn't have needed in the first place. That is not my understanding of free! That said, I don't complain about that practice in principle: I know perfectly well about this mechanism and can deal with it. And I'm fine with it because I am well aware that this pays for
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
Your first premise, about being Swiss and thus neutral, is a premise I reject.
I did not state that the Swiss are and have been neutral at all times. I was only making a point that where I live, whatever the EU does has little or no effect. Today, more than for many decades, Switzerland is at odds with the EU. I won't bother with you about the details, just accept that whatever comes of the Google case, Switzerland will not be affected either way! Unless of course, Google changes their busines model, for the better or worse of the entire world.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
If, as you claim, the laziness of users to get up and find an alternative
Laziness is certainly part of the reason, but that is not what the EU objects against: everyone has the right to be lazy after all ;-) The main issue is that a large portion of the smartphone and tablet userbase has almost no computer knowledge at all: these people know how to open whatever browser is installed on their device per default, and search for a topic that interests them with the search engine that is installed by default. Many are not even aware there are alternatives: they haven't been using these devices before, they are not used to machines offering alternate programs in the first place: have you ever downloaded the "toast-it" app to your toaster? no? Why might that be?
W∴ Balboos wrote:
OK - so per your analysis, Europeans are flocking to Google
Not my analysis, according to the analyisis of the EU agency Google is used by 90% of the user base. Can't say how exactly they measured, but even if they're off by a considerable amount, it's save to say Goggle is in the lead by a solid margin.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
FREE service
I object to that. Google takes your data and sells it, either directly or indirectly through targeted ads. That doesn't automatically deduct money from your pocket, but it does lead to some people buying stuff that otherwise they wouldn't have bought, or in some cases, wouldn't have needed in the first place. That is not my understanding of free! That said, I don't complain about that practice in principle: I know perfectly well about this mechanism and can deal with it. And I'm fine with it because I am well aware that this pays for
To a great extent your tome proves my point. As for paid promotion of products being illegal: does that mean radio and television throughout the EU are commercial free? What's the difference, except that those receiving the revenue from the advertising are EU members? Does every commercial have a disclaimer that it is only trying to get you to buy their product but competitors exist and you should consider theirs, too?
Stefan_Lang wrote:
Also whether or not Google Search is free doesn't matter at all in the Google case.
"In the case of Google" ? ? ? ? No one is making anyone use any search engine. You may be better directing your wrath to the SmartPhone companies who put on a browser at all. They are, after all, accessories to steering users toward Google. "In the case of Google" says so much about attitudes. No matter how you slice it, it's a pretense (or implication) that EU residents are incapable of making decisions that satisfy the EU's interests as they would like (i.e., everything for them). The citizens would appear to be so helpless that they need to be protected from themselves - but at the expense, via huge fines, of American companies. Hence my original proposal: they close all the Google facilities, fire all the employees, pull all of their financial interests out, and block the EU from using Google. Asides: Although not a member of the EU, Switzerland's interests (for both political and trade reasons) will doubtless fall very near those of its neighbors. The toaster analogy, by the way, is neither parallel nor relevant.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
