Apparently the customer knows best...
-
I've heard epic tales of their ignorance, yet now I've met one myself I'm still surprised :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
But... I get this sort of shit all the time, a manager who used to be a developer 25 years ago, in VB, concludes a meeting by saying, oh that should take about x days/weeks/months so I want it delivered in x-10%. 3 days later will also give you another project to complete in parallel, no change to the deadline!.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
Sounds like a Dilbert thing :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
There is indeed a comic about just that, but I can't seem to find it. Take this instead: http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-10-19[^] ;)
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
-
I've heard epic tales of their ignorance, yet now I've met one myself I'm still surprised :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
You do know how they get salesmen? http://dilbert.com/strip/2006-07-29[^] ;P
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
-
Is his name "Jeff"? I worked for a Jeff once that said things like that all the time. He had once written some software in COBOL which apparently showed him that he was an expert programmer and all things were easy. This is why he always thought software developers were obviously overpaid and were constantly lying to him about how long things would take.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
People lying is a reasonable expectation. Just think about it: http://dilbert.com/strip/2011-02-20[^]:cool:
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
-
You do know how they get salesmen? http://dilbert.com/strip/2006-07-29[^] ;P
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
:laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
But... I get this sort of shit all the time, a manager who used to be a developer 25 years ago, in VB, concludes a meeting by saying, oh that should take about x days/weeks/months so I want it delivered in x-10%. 3 days later will also give you another project to complete in parallel, no change to the deadline!.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
It's absurd that logic and reasoning seem to be the opposite of one's power... :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
It's absurd that logic and reasoning seem to be the opposite of one's power... :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Actually said manager is brilliant, just not at estimating development resources, or managing minions. He manages senior management rather well!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
Sounds like a Dilbert thing :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Yes, that's from Dilbert
-
So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I once helped staff an industry specific software presentation where loads of people were invited to come along for demonstrations cake and coffee I had one potential who, for every aspect of the software I demonstrated, told me that his existing self made solution was faster, better, wider and cheaper. I took this for a while and then stood up, handed him back his business card, and told him that we couldn't help him. He seemed shocked and I know everyone else in the room was as well but you just cannot help some people It depends on how confident you are in your own abilities and how desperate you are for the work. That was about 30 years ago and I am still working in the same market place today and also still have some of the same clients that became customers around that time (I would love to have said that particular demo day but cannot remember for sure)
-
So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
"Good, Quick, Cheap. Pick any two." Said with a smile, it can be tactfully delivered. Doesn't work worth a damn in an email or text. :)
Cheers, Mike Fidler "I intend to live forever - so far, so good." Steven Wright "I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." Also Steven Wright
-
Is his name "Jeff"? I worked for a Jeff once that said things like that all the time. He had once written some software in COBOL which apparently showed him that he was an expert programmer and all things were easy. This is why he always thought software developers were obviously overpaid and were constantly lying to him about how long things would take.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Funny you mention that - I had a spookily similar experience with a Geoff except in his case he'd written an application in MS basic so this made him an expert in high performance comms (serial data at 4800 baud) and real time programming (displaying said data on the screen, picking a colour at random for each new data item).
-
I once helped staff an industry specific software presentation where loads of people were invited to come along for demonstrations cake and coffee I had one potential who, for every aspect of the software I demonstrated, told me that his existing self made solution was faster, better, wider and cheaper. I took this for a while and then stood up, handed him back his business card, and told him that we couldn't help him. He seemed shocked and I know everyone else in the room was as well but you just cannot help some people It depends on how confident you are in your own abilities and how desperate you are for the work. That was about 30 years ago and I am still working in the same market place today and also still have some of the same clients that became customers around that time (I would love to have said that particular demo day but cannot remember for sure)
That's awesome. You weren't rude or anything and just told him the truth. Probably everyone in the room, including that guy, thought the same :thumbsup:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Way back (in 1996) I was the new guy in a software shop. Graeme, one of the Directors, said "Robert, we have great new project for you to lead. Visual Basic, right up your alley, large budget, big multinational. The deal is all signed - fixed price contract. Dave will tell you all about it." Dave, apparently, came up with the fixed price quote. The fixed price covered about 6 man-months at the then rate for developers. Dave showed me his spec document, about 70 pages. It appeared to be a series of style notes for Win Forms. After listening to Dave for a while I said: "Dave - how many input forms are there in this system?". "I don't know", says Dave, "you can figure that out when you design the system.". "Dave, how did you come up with a fixed price for this system if you don't know what it does?". "Oh", says Dave, smiling. "It doesn't really matter. We've got a huge budget, AND ... it's going to be written in VB which is really fast and easy!". At this point I was thinking to myself: "Dave must be a total VB hacker with no real world smarts. I need to let him know that what seems really easy for him may not be for ordinary folk". "So Dave", I said, "how much VB have you done?". "Oh", says Dave, "none at all. But I've heard that it's really easy". And yes, I did quit that company not long after ...
-
Way back (in 1996) I was the new guy in a software shop. Graeme, one of the Directors, said "Robert, we have great new project for you to lead. Visual Basic, right up your alley, large budget, big multinational. The deal is all signed - fixed price contract. Dave will tell you all about it." Dave, apparently, came up with the fixed price quote. The fixed price covered about 6 man-months at the then rate for developers. Dave showed me his spec document, about 70 pages. It appeared to be a series of style notes for Win Forms. After listening to Dave for a while I said: "Dave - how many input forms are there in this system?". "I don't know", says Dave, "you can figure that out when you design the system.". "Dave, how did you come up with a fixed price for this system if you don't know what it does?". "Oh", says Dave, smiling. "It doesn't really matter. We've got a huge budget, AND ... it's going to be written in VB which is really fast and easy!". At this point I was thinking to myself: "Dave must be a total VB hacker with no real world smarts. I need to let him know that what seems really easy for him may not be for ordinary folk". "So Dave", I said, "how much VB have you done?". "Oh", says Dave, "none at all. But I've heard that it's really easy". And yes, I did quit that company not long after ...
Wow, is he still in business? :omg: :wtf:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
Wow, is he still in business? :omg: :wtf:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
No - went under the next year. They had several projects run in the same manner.
-
Wow, is he still in business? :omg: :wtf:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Also: The client company really was a seriously big multi-national. One of their "smart young men of the future", with a freshly minted MBA, was the reason our company was chosen - apparently against the advice of his seniors. When the project crashed and burned (which it did) they sent him manage a two man office in Western China.
