You Want Aluminum Foil? What's your hat size?
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Why do you care if anyone tracks your location??? So what?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
I can tell you don't care. Member since Sat 2 Oct 2004 (10 years, 6 months) No Bio. No Picture. No . . . anything. What's the big secret(s)? Obviously, privacy doesn't matter to you. With over ten years to do some revelations, I don't think you try the 'too busy' version of why not. So - we await your photo, bio, family details, phone numbers, etc.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Late to the party but I just asked him why, after 10 years on CP, he has no photo, no bio, no information at all - what has he to hide? Also requested he post his phone numbers, family details, etc.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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So yesterday the news (I forgot which) reported how both iPhones and Android phones were busily tracking and recording your locations, storing them on your phone. Disabling this feature (should you find out about it) is buried several layers deep, particularly so for the iPhone. I'm a privacy nut but it doesn't bother me. I don't have an iPhone (or iAnything). I don't have an Android device. If it weren't immodest of me, I'd chastise everyone I know with hearty I-Told-You-So. They'd respond that it doesn't bother them and then, when I'm safely out of sight, fret about it. So - my advice to you - one and all. Protect yourself with the blessed insight of none other than Michael Faraday: wrap your phone in aluminum foil and never be tracked (or otherwise disturbed) again. Which emoticon is symbolizes gloating?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Privacy was a dream in the past. Here is another one: how-old.net.
TOMZ_KV
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So yesterday the news (I forgot which) reported how both iPhones and Android phones were busily tracking and recording your locations, storing them on your phone. Disabling this feature (should you find out about it) is buried several layers deep, particularly so for the iPhone. I'm a privacy nut but it doesn't bother me. I don't have an iPhone (or iAnything). I don't have an Android device. If it weren't immodest of me, I'd chastise everyone I know with hearty I-Told-You-So. They'd respond that it doesn't bother them and then, when I'm safely out of sight, fret about it. So - my advice to you - one and all. Protect yourself with the blessed insight of none other than Michael Faraday: wrap your phone in aluminum foil and never be tracked (or otherwise disturbed) again. Which emoticon is symbolizes gloating?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
For me, I don't give a bugger, and even consider parts of it useful. For children, it's another matter altogether. While it may be nice to have a real-time location thingy, to know where your children are, I see storage of such data as unwanted, and potentially harmful. If some loony targets a child, all they have to do is steal or clone their phone, and instantly gain access to their regular habits -- where they go, and when. I don't like it. Disable it for kids; make it opt-in, not opt-out.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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For me, I don't give a bugger, and even consider parts of it useful. For children, it's another matter altogether. While it may be nice to have a real-time location thingy, to know where your children are, I see storage of such data as unwanted, and potentially harmful. If some loony targets a child, all they have to do is steal or clone their phone, and instantly gain access to their regular habits -- where they go, and when. I don't like it. Disable it for kids; make it opt-in, not opt-out.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
It should always be only opt-in. For adults, it let's someone determine when they'd be away from home (if they're lucky, only for burglary). It's a stalker's delight. Adults can be hurt if their whereabouts are monitored, as well. Aside from that, we seem to agree.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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If it were 'only' the FBI, CIA, or NSA it wouldn't be so bad. It's elephanting apple and google. To them, your info is a commodity.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
To them, your info is a commodity.
Lets be honest... to large corporations your existence is a commodity. None of this really bothers me though... as for the FBI, CIA, NSA - I don't do anything they'd be interested in. As for Apple, Google, Microsoft - I've learned to 100% completely ignore online advertisement. Its a gift! :cool:
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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It should always be only opt-in. For adults, it let's someone determine when they'd be away from home (if they're lucky, only for burglary). It's a stalker's delight. Adults can be hurt if their whereabouts are monitored, as well. Aside from that, we seem to agree.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
it let's someone determine when they'd be away from home
If a burglar's looking for targets, they can just use twatter perfectly legally, which requires almost zero effort or planning, so you only need to opt out if there is a personal risk that you already know about. Bank managers and politicians should opt out, for example, because everyone hates them, but your average Joe? Nah. The only people who might want to use such information are marketing morons, but even they have easier routes to take.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
To them, your info is a commodity.
Lets be honest... to large corporations your existence is a commodity. None of this really bothers me though... as for the FBI, CIA, NSA - I don't do anything they'd be interested in. As for Apple, Google, Microsoft - I've learned to 100% completely ignore online advertisement. Its a gift! :cool:
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
After recently helping a friend pay for adwords... I was SO SHOCKED at the prices. We are talking $5.00, $12.00 and $20.00 click through charges! OMG. Maybe because we chose a geographic area, but the fees across the board are SO much higher than we thought. His results. He spent $600 and got one person to call him. We both decided a direct mail piece was probably a better way to go. So, now, when I get an annoying ad. I click on it. A LOT! In different sessions. In fact, I was thinking about writing an App for that! This led to the an ugly conclusion about the net... LOL.
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So yesterday the news (I forgot which) reported how both iPhones and Android phones were busily tracking and recording your locations, storing them on your phone. Disabling this feature (should you find out about it) is buried several layers deep, particularly so for the iPhone. I'm a privacy nut but it doesn't bother me. I don't have an iPhone (or iAnything). I don't have an Android device. If it weren't immodest of me, I'd chastise everyone I know with hearty I-Told-You-So. They'd respond that it doesn't bother them and then, when I'm safely out of sight, fret about it. So - my advice to you - one and all. Protect yourself with the blessed insight of none other than Michael Faraday: wrap your phone in aluminum foil and never be tracked (or otherwise disturbed) again. Which emoticon is symbolizes gloating?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
To quote Buffalo Springfield: "Paranoia strikes deep, Into you life it will creep..." And from I don't remember who..."Just because you're paranoid, does not mean that someone is not out to get you...." :-\ :omg:
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To quote Buffalo Springfield: "Paranoia strikes deep, Into you life it will creep..." And from I don't remember who..."Just because you're paranoid, does not mean that someone is not out to get you...." :-\ :omg:
( for your collection: )
" I'm Afraid I Don't Know What I'm Afraid Of " - Balboos 2015.05.01
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Nothing you posted here makes any sense, nor has any remote chance of effecting your daily life.. 1) Movement.. You can move around just fine - with or without your phone on you. 2) Safety.. not sure how safety comes in here. What's unsafe about location tracking? 3) Liberty.. what rights would you lose with this feature on? 4) "politicians and other interesting people" - wait, what? huh? 5) Wartime - there's a war on now.. How has your phone's location services had any effect on it, or been affected by it? 6) Sharing - Again, so what.. This has been going on for years with all kinds of advertising. I really don't get the "phone => location" hysteria. The only reason I turned by off is because it means apps are running -and my battery dies faster. Personnaly I don't care about any of the things you point out. All are non-issues, and some are way out there whacko.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Let me play the Devil's advocate of why it is BAD to give the government unfettered access to this information. Lets pretend someone in the agency wants to run for Public Office. But they need Donor money to make this happen. So, they run a simple geofence around rich neighborhoods (really rich). They also geofence all of the hotels (both are already done for them, BTW). Now, they take META data. Phone #, Time/Date, GPS location. They run a simple enough query. Find every phone that normally spends the night in the right neighborhoods, that also spends the nights (or large parts of it), in the Nice hotels on some nights. [People who might be having an affair] Next, find multiple occurrences, and then find the phones that are consistently (more than once), near that phone, those nights in the hotel. [The person, they are probably having an affair with]. Next, cross reference the original phones with their work locations, double check that they are not working for the government, or are judges. Take this list, and "Suggest Kindly" that you know about the affair, and that your Campaign needs a SMALL amount of cash. And suddenly, you are a politician. I have watched SIMILAR transactions occur, against wealthy people that I know. When they refused, they had charges brought against them, in a CLEAR SMEAR campaign, and were forced to literally step down from their companies, and in hindsight said they should have just paid the money, it cost them too much!!! The charges eventually went away... Settled out of court. Information is NEITHER good nor bad. How it is used, CAN be either. There are a lot of positive uses. They can identify the rioters in Baltimore! Bring up DL Photos, and cross reference, and make arrests later on. Now, the interesting part is that they will probably not use this data in this way. If not, all arguments for keeping it seem moot! == The issue is not the data. This issue is not how honest you are. This issue is really about having it used against you in some unforeseeable way, and then having the government (who admits that their agents are REQUIRED to lie under oath about some of its existence and usage, look into the sting ray device usage), use this information to exact some kind of justice. I will give you one more. Right now, the IRS can seize all of your bank assets for depositing too much cash under the $10,000 threshold. They can do this on daily transactions of $3,000 -$5,000. And you have to sue them to get it back. Now, someon
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For me, I don't give a bugger, and even consider parts of it useful. For children, it's another matter altogether. While it may be nice to have a real-time location thingy, to know where your children are, I see storage of such data as unwanted, and potentially harmful. If some loony targets a child, all they have to do is steal or clone their phone, and instantly gain access to their regular habits -- where they go, and when. I don't like it. Disable it for kids; make it opt-in, not opt-out.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Quote:
If some loony targets a child, all they have to do is steal or clone their phone, and instantly gain access to their regular habits -- where they go, and when.
Ah yes, because that's so much simpler than simply knowing what school they attend five days a week - something which, if they are targeting the child, they already have locked in their brains. Are you for real?
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So yesterday the news (I forgot which) reported how both iPhones and Android phones were busily tracking and recording your locations, storing them on your phone. Disabling this feature (should you find out about it) is buried several layers deep, particularly so for the iPhone. I'm a privacy nut but it doesn't bother me. I don't have an iPhone (or iAnything). I don't have an Android device. If it weren't immodest of me, I'd chastise everyone I know with hearty I-Told-You-So. They'd respond that it doesn't bother them and then, when I'm safely out of sight, fret about it. So - my advice to you - one and all. Protect yourself with the blessed insight of none other than Michael Faraday: wrap your phone in aluminum foil and never be tracked (or otherwise disturbed) again. Which emoticon is symbolizes gloating?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Let's just hope that none of the privacy nutters finds themselves hitting a tree on a quiet road one night, manage to dial the emergency number but lose consciousness before they can utter a word! After all such a scenario is only thousands (if not millions) of times more likely than anyone causing you harm as a result of your phone knowing where you are!
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Let me play the Devil's advocate of why it is BAD to give the government unfettered access to this information. Lets pretend someone in the agency wants to run for Public Office. But they need Donor money to make this happen. So, they run a simple geofence around rich neighborhoods (really rich). They also geofence all of the hotels (both are already done for them, BTW). Now, they take META data. Phone #, Time/Date, GPS location. They run a simple enough query. Find every phone that normally spends the night in the right neighborhoods, that also spends the nights (or large parts of it), in the Nice hotels on some nights. [People who might be having an affair] Next, find multiple occurrences, and then find the phones that are consistently (more than once), near that phone, those nights in the hotel. [The person, they are probably having an affair with]. Next, cross reference the original phones with their work locations, double check that they are not working for the government, or are judges. Take this list, and "Suggest Kindly" that you know about the affair, and that your Campaign needs a SMALL amount of cash. And suddenly, you are a politician. I have watched SIMILAR transactions occur, against wealthy people that I know. When they refused, they had charges brought against them, in a CLEAR SMEAR campaign, and were forced to literally step down from their companies, and in hindsight said they should have just paid the money, it cost them too much!!! The charges eventually went away... Settled out of court. Information is NEITHER good nor bad. How it is used, CAN be either. There are a lot of positive uses. They can identify the rioters in Baltimore! Bring up DL Photos, and cross reference, and make arrests later on. Now, the interesting part is that they will probably not use this data in this way. If not, all arguments for keeping it seem moot! == The issue is not the data. This issue is not how honest you are. This issue is really about having it used against you in some unforeseeable way, and then having the government (who admits that their agents are REQUIRED to lie under oath about some of its existence and usage, look into the sting ray device usage), use this information to exact some kind of justice. I will give you one more. Right now, the IRS can seize all of your bank assets for depositing too much cash under the $10,000 threshold. They can do this on daily transactions of $3,000 -$5,000. And you have to sue them to get it back. Now, someon
Well said. Too few people understand that it's not the individual pieces of data that matter, it's the way that it can all be aggregated now. Just about anything about your private life can be revealed from your data trail, from your Internet use, your purchases, location data, etc. The potential for harassment, blackmail, etc. is huge. It makes it easy for powerful actors (wealthy individuals, governments, criminals, police, private detectives) to attack, discredit, silence, etc. This happened to the OWS movement, they were targeted under anti-terrorism laws. Think about how easy this makes it for the government to go after dissidents.
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Let's just hope that none of the privacy nutters finds themselves hitting a tree on a quiet road one night, manage to dial the emergency number but lose consciousness before they can utter a word! After all such a scenario is only thousands (if not millions) of times more likely than anyone causing you harm as a result of your phone knowing where you are!
So you dismiss someone who values their privacy by labeling them a 'nutter' ? As far as causing harm, tracking your location can be used to find an excuse to raise insurance rates, dismiss you from your employment, deny you employment, and any number of effect based upon being judged. Something I've often heard about invaded privacy: various versions of "I don't have anything to hide". So I ask them (and you ask yourself) if you'd mind if someone took a look through your mail before you got it. For some reason they didn't fancy the idea. But, as you would expect, I reminded them that they told me they've nothing to hide. So - would you mind someone going through your private 'stuff'?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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So you dismiss someone who values their privacy by labeling them a 'nutter' ? As far as causing harm, tracking your location can be used to find an excuse to raise insurance rates, dismiss you from your employment, deny you employment, and any number of effect based upon being judged. Something I've often heard about invaded privacy: various versions of "I don't have anything to hide". So I ask them (and you ask yourself) if you'd mind if someone took a look through your mail before you got it. For some reason they didn't fancy the idea. But, as you would expect, I reminded them that they told me they've nothing to hide. So - would you mind someone going through your private 'stuff'?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Valuing your privacy is one thing. Overvaluing your privacy quite another! Your examples are all straw men. Your insurance company is entitled to know where you live as part of the contract you sign with them - failure to disclose material details will result in the voiding of cover. As to anyone else tracking you, just how is it that they are obtaining the records on a phone in your possession again? And what can they learn from a phone that simply siccing a PI on your tail won't teach them? Where all the nutters go wrong is first to vastly overestimate their own importance (of all the billions of people in the world why should you be the target of anyone's special interest?) and secondly to vastly underestimate the ease with which they could be tracked before computers and smartphones were ever invented. Are you on an electoral roll? Do you pay taxes? Are you a member of a library or a club? Do you ever have a pizza delivered? And you still think your privacy is protected by switching off the GPS on a phone? What makes you think your mail isn't already being looked through if you're a person of sufficient interest to warrant someone tracking your location? Have you never been asked for a utility bill as a form of ID? Never lost a bank card (your account is protected by a PIN that has a grand total of 10000 possible combinations, by the way - how long do you reckon it would take someone to crack yours?) Privacy is and always has been a convenient lie we tell ourselves to protect our feelings. There is only one place that you will ever achieve privacy and this is in your coffin (although even that's not guaranteed - a disinterment can still be demanded by order of a judge!) If someone has a real desire to find you then they will do so. Turning off the GPS in your phone will not make that harder, nor will turning it on make it easier. That's a fact that you are entirely at liberty to ignore but, yes, I will always maintain that it is irrational so to do. Oh, and no, I have no objection to you reading my mail providing that you also sort out the stuff that I really have no need to while you're doing it. I don't, you see, it turns out, have anything to hide and long ago accepted that if I did it was almost certainly far too late to do anything about it!
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Valuing your privacy is one thing. Overvaluing your privacy quite another! Your examples are all straw men. Your insurance company is entitled to know where you live as part of the contract you sign with them - failure to disclose material details will result in the voiding of cover. As to anyone else tracking you, just how is it that they are obtaining the records on a phone in your possession again? And what can they learn from a phone that simply siccing a PI on your tail won't teach them? Where all the nutters go wrong is first to vastly overestimate their own importance (of all the billions of people in the world why should you be the target of anyone's special interest?) and secondly to vastly underestimate the ease with which they could be tracked before computers and smartphones were ever invented. Are you on an electoral roll? Do you pay taxes? Are you a member of a library or a club? Do you ever have a pizza delivered? And you still think your privacy is protected by switching off the GPS on a phone? What makes you think your mail isn't already being looked through if you're a person of sufficient interest to warrant someone tracking your location? Have you never been asked for a utility bill as a form of ID? Never lost a bank card (your account is protected by a PIN that has a grand total of 10000 possible combinations, by the way - how long do you reckon it would take someone to crack yours?) Privacy is and always has been a convenient lie we tell ourselves to protect our feelings. There is only one place that you will ever achieve privacy and this is in your coffin (although even that's not guaranteed - a disinterment can still be demanded by order of a judge!) If someone has a real desire to find you then they will do so. Turning off the GPS in your phone will not make that harder, nor will turning it on make it easier. That's a fact that you are entirely at liberty to ignore but, yes, I will always maintain that it is irrational so to do. Oh, and no, I have no objection to you reading my mail providing that you also sort out the stuff that I really have no need to while you're doing it. I don't, you see, it turns out, have anything to hide and long ago accepted that if I did it was almost certainly far too late to do anything about it!
My arguments are Straw Men? Then you've just planted a field. Someone could hire a PI - but they'd have to target you specifically - not just get the impulse to check. Did I ever have pizza delivered, etc.? Pay taxes? and the other list of ridiculous leaks you put forward. None of them keep a tab on what I'm doing on a continuous basis. My insurance company is not entitled to know where I go. I insure my vehicle for driving but I'm not accountable to them as to where I drive. Only how I drive. Electoral rolls? etc. etc. etc. Right down to the ATM pin: only 10K is correct - but perhaps your bank is lax. Mine will disable a card after a few failed attempts in a row. Actually true for just about every online account with financial implications. You really miss the big picture: a private company monitoring everyone continuously and without their permission. Sure - if someone specifically targeted me "they could get me" - but they have to pick me out, specifically. That becomes an expensive proposition that would not be done without some specific motivation. You just cannot seem to distinguish the difference as to what can be done if some entity were specifically motivated to obtain your personal information vs. harvesting everything about everyone with no expenses incurred. You reasoning, blurring what could be done vs. what is being done, as though one justifies the other is just plain bogus. An easy excuse to not bother and hope nothing happens to you. You'd probably have loved living in East Germany before the wall went down. Actually - I am flabbergasted at your disregard for privacy. It must be cultural or something like that. Like labeling those who won't quietly go with the flow as 'nutters'. A quick label and all is right with your world.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Quote:
If some loony targets a child, all they have to do is steal or clone their phone, and instantly gain access to their regular habits -- where they go, and when.
Ah yes, because that's so much simpler than simply knowing what school they attend five days a week - something which, if they are targeting the child, they already have locked in their brains. Are you for real?
Surveillance takes time and effort. Your average monster could steal or clone the phones of a hundred potential victims in less time than it would take to watch just one.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I don't really care if the FBI tracks me by my cell phone. I really don't. When I become an international bad boy, then maaaybe, I might care.
Try to imagine going into a Starbucks that happens to be next door to the Radical Islamist Book Store, and having your cell phone just slightly misinterpret the GPS location. This happens three times, and suddenly you discover (at the airport, when trying to go on vacation) that you're on a No Fly list, with no way to get off. You're still not an international bad boy. Are ou still ok with being tracked? The problem with automated data collection is that the inferences that are automatically extracted from the data don't start with the presumption of innocence.
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Try to imagine going into a Starbucks that happens to be next door to the Radical Islamist Book Store, and having your cell phone just slightly misinterpret the GPS location. This happens three times, and suddenly you discover (at the airport, when trying to go on vacation) that you're on a No Fly list, with no way to get off. You're still not an international bad boy. Are ou still ok with being tracked? The problem with automated data collection is that the inferences that are automatically extracted from the data don't start with the presumption of innocence.