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Time dilation example

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  • T Teraten

    In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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    GuyThiebaut
    wrote on last edited by
    #4

    What helped me understand time dilation, not that I 'understand' it, was the explanation of how the speed of light is constant within a reference point. In order to maintain this constant speed of light, time dilation takes place. So for a person travelling in a car, at 50 mph, for their reference point the light coming out of the headlamps is not the speed of light +50mph but the speed of light(i.e. if they measured the speed of the light coming out of their headlamps) as their time dilates due to the 50mph speed their car is travelling at. Now it gets more interesting when two cars are moving towards each other with a closing speed of 100mph - the light from the opposite car is still perceived as travelling at the speed of light and not the speed of light +50mph(the light speed measuring car's 50mph having been explained in the previous paragraph). If someone can explain how time dilation works in this context that would be great :)

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

    ― Christopher Hitchens

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    • T Teraten

      In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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      Lost User
      wrote on last edited by
      #5

      An experiment to demonstrate (prove) Relativity in the kitchen is stretching things a bit. However real evidence of the predictions of Relativity (General and Special) is present in the global GPS system. The orbiting GPS clocks would gain about 38 microseconds relative to earth clocks causing about a 10km error every day. This is made up of a loss of 7 microsecs due to the speed of orbit and a gain of 45 microsecs due to the effect of gravity. This is accounted for by making the GPS clocks tick more slowly by 38 microsec a day done before they are launched.http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html[^]

      Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

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      • T Teraten

        In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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        PIEBALDconsult
        wrote on last edited by
        #6

        You might need to ask a timelord. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8lBIcHre0[^]

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        • T Teraten

          In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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          Chris Maunder
          wrote on last edited by
          #7

          The Operator wrote:

          The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation

          Bad examples. REALLY bad examples. With regards to the water planet they said that they'd had 2 decades (or whatever) of data from the person who was meant to land, but when they arrived they all suddenly surmised that the previous astronaut had landed mere minutes before them. ARGH! Time still passed. Both parties left from the same place and arrived at the same place and travelled more or less through the same gravitational fields, so if they left 20 years apart they would arrive 20 years apart. It's just that their clocks wouldn't match the clocks back on earth (or a clock outside of the pull of the nearby blackhole) /bangs head.

          cheers Chris Maunder

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          • G GuyThiebaut

            What helped me understand time dilation, not that I 'understand' it, was the explanation of how the speed of light is constant within a reference point. In order to maintain this constant speed of light, time dilation takes place. So for a person travelling in a car, at 50 mph, for their reference point the light coming out of the headlamps is not the speed of light +50mph but the speed of light(i.e. if they measured the speed of the light coming out of their headlamps) as their time dilates due to the 50mph speed their car is travelling at. Now it gets more interesting when two cars are moving towards each other with a closing speed of 100mph - the light from the opposite car is still perceived as travelling at the speed of light and not the speed of light +50mph(the light speed measuring car's 50mph having been explained in the previous paragraph). If someone can explain how time dilation works in this context that would be great :)

            “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

            ― Christopher Hitchens

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            Daniel Pfeffer
            wrote on last edited by
            #8

            1. Each car is moving toward the other at 50 km/h relative to an observer on the ground. 2. The relativistic addition of velocities gives a relative velocity for the two cars of slightly less than 100 km/h (first instance of time dilation). 3. Light emitted at a given frequency carries its own clock with it, namely the frequency. Therefore when this "clock" is read in another frame of reference, it will exhibit both the classical Doppler effect and time dilation, together known as the relativistic Doppler effect (second instance of time dilation). I hope this helps a bit. :)

            If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill

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            • D Daniel Pfeffer

              1. Each car is moving toward the other at 50 km/h relative to an observer on the ground. 2. The relativistic addition of velocities gives a relative velocity for the two cars of slightly less than 100 km/h (first instance of time dilation). 3. Light emitted at a given frequency carries its own clock with it, namely the frequency. Therefore when this "clock" is read in another frame of reference, it will exhibit both the classical Doppler effect and time dilation, together known as the relativistic Doppler effect (second instance of time dilation). I hope this helps a bit. :)

              If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill

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              GuyThiebaut
              wrote on last edited by
              #9

              Brilliant, thanks :thumbsup: I will read up more on this now, the light carrying its own clock with it helps.

              “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

              ― Christopher Hitchens

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              • D Daniel Pfeffer

                Speaking from the heights of my B.Sc. in Physics :) :) :) The description of the clocks' behaviour is accurate, but exaggerated; the effects of orbiting the Earth are much smaller than indicated. I would further nit-pick that the two observers on the Earth do not share a clock - they are moving at different velocities because one is closer to the Earth's axis than the other, and because they are not at the same longitude. A simple example of space-time dilation due to Special Relativity may be seen in the Michelson-Morley experiment, [^] which may be performed with an interferometer. The "problem" is that you would only see something if space-time dilation does not occur. Gravitational Space-Time dilation is a little more difficult to demonstrate; the best demonstrations are astronomical. IIRC, there is a demonstration of gravitational red shift using the Mossbauer Effect, but I forget the details.

                If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill

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                Lost User
                wrote on last edited by
                #10

                The record holder in time travel by time travel time dilation, as far as I know, is still the Russian who was stuck on the space station Mir 25 years ago when the Soviet Union came to an end and they took their time to get him down. He gained something like half a second total.

                The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
                This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
                "I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.

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                • G GuyThiebaut

                  What helped me understand time dilation, not that I 'understand' it, was the explanation of how the speed of light is constant within a reference point. In order to maintain this constant speed of light, time dilation takes place. So for a person travelling in a car, at 50 mph, for their reference point the light coming out of the headlamps is not the speed of light +50mph but the speed of light(i.e. if they measured the speed of the light coming out of their headlamps) as their time dilates due to the 50mph speed their car is travelling at. Now it gets more interesting when two cars are moving towards each other with a closing speed of 100mph - the light from the opposite car is still perceived as travelling at the speed of light and not the speed of light +50mph(the light speed measuring car's 50mph having been explained in the previous paragraph). If someone can explain how time dilation works in this context that would be great :)

                  “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

                  ― Christopher Hitchens

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                  L Offline
                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #11

                  As far as I understood, space is bent stronger around a fast object (or a large mass, which is essentially the same due to E = mc^2). The light has to travel a longer distance through the curvature.

                  The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
                  This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
                  "I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.

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                  • L Lost User

                    As far as I understood, space is bent stronger around a fast object (or a large mass, which is essentially the same due to E = mc^2). The light has to travel a longer distance through the curvature.

                    The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
                    This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
                    "I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.

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                    D Offline
                    Daniel Pfeffer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #12

                    You are confusing gravitational lensing (an effect due to General Relativity) with time dilation (and effect due to Special Relativity). The essential difference between Special and General Relativity is that Special Relativity ignores gravity and only gives a partial treatment of acceleration, while General Relativity assumes that as we cannot tell the difference between gravity and acceleration, they should be treated as equivalent. All manner of problems are solved (and created) by this assumption...

                    If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • T Teraten

                      In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                      Simon ORiordan from UK
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #13

                      Sorry. No time.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • T Teraten

                        In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                        mngerhold
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #14

                        I feel you would be better off concentrating on one effect at a time, and first discuss the effects of speed/acceleration, then maybe adding in gravity. Einstein once said (supposedly) 'moving clocks run slow' - this doesn't explain anything, but confirms what needs explaining.

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                        • T Teraten

                          In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                          Graham Lemon UK
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #15

                          I'm sorry but... The only thing I can say for sure about the movie "Interstellar" and time (dilated or otherwise) is that it was a complete waste of mine :sigh:

                          Sometimes, it just is, OK!

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                          • T Teraten

                            In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                            bleahy48
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #16

                            I would recommend the book: "Why Does E=mc2? (And Why Should We Care?)" by Brian Cox, Jeff Forshaw. [The authors are Scottish Physicists and if you get the audio book and listen to them rea it with their accents it's even better!] They talk about experiments where radioactive particles were run in a particle accelerator and compared with particles of the same material not run. They could measure the half life and the difference between the two samples was exactly as Einstein's theory would predict.

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                            • T Teraten

                              In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                              Underlost
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #17

                              Doesn't GPS (and perhaps most /all sattelites) take time dilation into account?

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                              • T Teraten

                                In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                                User 10961843
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #18

                                I believe that this fits your requirements I was going through my e-mails for some information on atomic frequency standards, when I came across an e-mail that I had sent to Tom Van Baak in 2007 congratulating him for his family-friendly time dilation experiment. If you are not familiar with his work, I heartily recommend that you explore his precision-time-keeping webpage at LeapSecond.com. Tom wanted to demonstrate Relativity to his children, so in September 2005 he loaded the family’s minivan with portable power supplies, monitoring equipment, and three HP 5071 cesium clocks. With his three kids and some camping gear in tow, he drove the winding roads spiraling up Washington’s Mt. Rainier and checked the family into a lodge 5,319 feet above sea level. By keeping the clocks at altitude for a weekend they were able to detect and measure the effects of relativistic time dilation compared to atomic clocks they left at home. The amazing thing is that the experiment worked! The predicted and measured effect was just over 20 nanoseconds. For more information, go to Tom’s excellent webpage “Project GREAT: General Relativity Einstein/Essen Anniversary Test – Clocks, Kids, and General Relativity on Mt Rainier” http://www.diyphysics.com/2012/03/15/tom-van-baaks-family-friendly-relativistic-time-dilation-experiment/

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                                • T Teraten

                                  In accordance with lounge rules "discussing anything in a software developer's life that takes your fancy except programming questions", here's a request for feedback on a time dilation example - The movie Interstellar includes examples of time dilation. My objective is to be able to provide a simple explanation and example of time dilation. Is my link below a good time dilation example or does it require correction or more clarification? http://www.oproot.com/a/nav/if/time-dilation.html[^] To access via mobile device, go to oproot.com > experiments > time dilation example Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime. Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving. - The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45 In the example link, there are 4 observers with 4 synchronized clocks. 2 observers are on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission. When regrouping the clocks are different - Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1) Observer 2 surface clock is 12:25. (O2) Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1) Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2) Extra credit question - Are there any science experiment ideas (on a budget) that can be performed to demonstrate time dilation?

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                                  K Offline
                                  KP Lee
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #19

                                  The problem with the time dilation examples are the inaccuracies in it make almost everything unknown. Where is the orbit relative to Earth? Once you get far enough out, the orbit with earth will lose to the orbit around the sun. How long does it take to get a three minute change in time? What's the mechanism for tracking time? If it is a grandfather clock movement, it will take 3 minutes in orbit to get a 3 minute time difference. If it is atomic resonance, I'd guess (WAG) it would take 3 million days to get 3 minutes difference in synchronous orbit. Being able to accelerate infinitely while reaching 99.9999999999% of the speed of light it would take 1.5 minutes out, reverse direction and 1.5 minutes back to get a 3 minute difference and it would have to have an incredibly strong machine to withstand the G forces and very fast computing to be able to tell when you are 1.5 light minutes away to stop and come back. If you went with it, you would be gelatinous goo when you get back. IE The web site doesn't do any real explaining of what is happening to cause the dilation or how long it takes to see that dilation.

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                                  • B bleahy48

                                    I would recommend the book: "Why Does E=mc2? (And Why Should We Care?)" by Brian Cox, Jeff Forshaw. [The authors are Scottish Physicists and if you get the audio book and listen to them rea it with their accents it's even better!] They talk about experiments where radioactive particles were run in a particle accelerator and compared with particles of the same material not run. They could measure the half life and the difference between the two samples was exactly as Einstein's theory would predict.

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                                    9082365
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #20

                                    Scottish? Wow! People really are accent blind. I never believed it before! Brian Cox hails from Oldham in Lancashire. I've not been able to find a birthplace for Jeff Forshaw but has a similar accent though whether this has been acquired from working at Manchester University I cannot say. However they are both very much English. Northern English but definitively not Scottish!

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                                    • K KP Lee

                                      The problem with the time dilation examples are the inaccuracies in it make almost everything unknown. Where is the orbit relative to Earth? Once you get far enough out, the orbit with earth will lose to the orbit around the sun. How long does it take to get a three minute change in time? What's the mechanism for tracking time? If it is a grandfather clock movement, it will take 3 minutes in orbit to get a 3 minute time difference. If it is atomic resonance, I'd guess (WAG) it would take 3 million days to get 3 minutes difference in synchronous orbit. Being able to accelerate infinitely while reaching 99.9999999999% of the speed of light it would take 1.5 minutes out, reverse direction and 1.5 minutes back to get a 3 minute difference and it would have to have an incredibly strong machine to withstand the G forces and very fast computing to be able to tell when you are 1.5 light minutes away to stop and come back. If you went with it, you would be gelatinous goo when you get back. IE The web site doesn't do any real explaining of what is happening to cause the dilation or how long it takes to see that dilation.

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                                      9082365
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #21

                                      Quote:

                                      Being able to accelerate infinitely while reaching 99.9999999999% of the speed of light

                                      Er ... this and other self-contradictory statements suggest that you really haven't got to grips with this at all. Sorry!

                                      Quote:

                                      it make almost everything unknown

                                      But are they known unknowns or unknown unknowns?

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                                      • 9 9082365

                                        Scottish? Wow! People really are accent blind. I never believed it before! Brian Cox hails from Oldham in Lancashire. I've not been able to find a birthplace for Jeff Forshaw but has a similar accent though whether this has been acquired from working at Manchester University I cannot say. However they are both very much English. Northern English but definitively not Scottish!

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                                        bleahy48
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #22

                                        Despite my confusion they are brilliant at explaining a very complex subject!

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                                        • K KP Lee

                                          The problem with the time dilation examples are the inaccuracies in it make almost everything unknown. Where is the orbit relative to Earth? Once you get far enough out, the orbit with earth will lose to the orbit around the sun. How long does it take to get a three minute change in time? What's the mechanism for tracking time? If it is a grandfather clock movement, it will take 3 minutes in orbit to get a 3 minute time difference. If it is atomic resonance, I'd guess (WAG) it would take 3 million days to get 3 minutes difference in synchronous orbit. Being able to accelerate infinitely while reaching 99.9999999999% of the speed of light it would take 1.5 minutes out, reverse direction and 1.5 minutes back to get a 3 minute difference and it would have to have an incredibly strong machine to withstand the G forces and very fast computing to be able to tell when you are 1.5 light minutes away to stop and come back. If you went with it, you would be gelatinous goo when you get back. IE The web site doesn't do any real explaining of what is happening to cause the dilation or how long it takes to see that dilation.

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                                          bleahy48
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #23

                                          You are really off base. This can be measured and has been. It's real. You are making the mistake of trying to relate relativity physics to your personal experience and common sense. Doesn't work.

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