is math discovered or invented?
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Muharrem B. wrote:
What is your opinion
That it is Maths.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
..although the question should probably take the past tense.
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Mathematics must include all of its branches and that would include arithmetic. So say, multiple objects existed and were observed. That, however, doesn't make mathematics a discovery. It is the association of multiple objects as a group, and making that initial "one and one are different than one" ( . . . and we'll so note it . . . ) that is where mathematics begins. This is conceptual - and thus - an invention. Two rocks sitting near one another does not have to be thought of as two rocks. Why not simply "A rock" and "A rock" ? That still works. At the same time, they may not be near - but one could still conceive of them as two items that are in some (conceived!) category and then associated. Our mathematics is a description of observations - and not necessarily the only way one could describe the universe.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Official Pun Reply: You can count on a number of possible answers.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Watch this: [^] I would say: Math is.
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
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I wonder who discovered hatred?
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
Satan
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Is so. I know him personally. :-)
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I normally use a hammer... :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the timeWe know that's how you get Debbie back to yours for the evening, Now what about problem solving :laugh:
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help end the violence EAT BACON
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Satan
What does Celine Dion have to do with this? :)
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Mathematics is a cognitive virus which jumped from fleas to early hunter-gatherer hominids in the late Paleolithic, driving said hominids to evolve to be able to count up to twenty (ten fingers, ten toes) quickly. The proto-human hosts reached a modus vivendi with the virus since such counting was useful when figuring out who to kill next, or, who to enslave next. Since it is an insatiable virus, it soon turned its early homo sapiens hosts into shepherds and farmers where there were more things to count (goats, cattle, sheep, baskets, sheaves, jars). At this late stage of human co-habitation with Mathematics virii, it is safe to say it is as much an archaic endosymbiotic part of our nervous-system as mitochondrial DNA (once single-celled organisms "captured" by Eukaryotas) is a part of our cellular structure. The rare human being in modern times who is able to free themselves of the Mathematics virus completely is usually considered an idiot, or insane, or becomes the founder of a new religion. Their lives are short, and their death often violent. Mathematics appears able to mobilize its hosts into insane clown posses which collectively attack external threats; the exact mechanism by which this social-engineering occurs is not clearly understood, probably because those who reach the point where they could explain it are murdered, or "disappeared," or sent to mental asylums. Cantor and Godel are good examples of Mathematics defending itself by directing the minds of those rare geniuses who realize what Mathematics actually is into the black-hole of considering the relative magnitude (ordinality, "Aleph") of infinities. Both, these brave souls ended their lives in mental illness, haunted by fears of being poisoned. Well, what can you say about something that you can't imagine yourself, or the world, without ? Without Mathematics we would be ... what ? ... as happy as dogs? cheers, Bill
«I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center» Kurt Vonnegut.
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Well. You can use a language (math is a language) to describe your breakfast, you can use it to write a star wars novel. Both descriptions are abstractions of something that existed or not. However they are both abstractions. You can of course discover star wars, but that is not what is meant here I think.
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As the relationships are discovered, a language for describing them is invented.
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Math was invented. One day, many years ago, a man at prayer was doing his usual thing when a winded messenger from the King came across him praying in a garden. "I've a message for the Prince but I'm exhausted and can continue no further, will you take it to him? It's a matter of national security". Hemming and hawing for a moment, the man at prayer realized it would be to his advantage to help the King in any way he could so he replied "Yes, I'm done praying for the day. Give me this message and I'll take it to the Prince". The messenger reached into his belt pouch and pulled out the coil of leather upon which was scribed a long sequence of characters. "Here, here it is. Under no circumstances is this message to fall into enemy hands for it would compromise the King, the Prince, and every citizen in this land. Take it. "Oh, but this is too heavy" said the ostensible bearer. "I can't add this to the array of weights my already overburdened frame can support. What with running ... I've got to carry all this stuff too; how will I ever get anywhere? I'll fail at the task, the scytale will fall into the possession of the enemy, and worse yet, I'll have my hands cut off for being on the wrong side, once they decypher it's meaning". Well, by now, the messenger had begun to recover his strength and was looking a little less peaked in the cheeks. "That's ok. I'm feeling rested now. I'll continue on. I'll do it. Deliver the Kings' message to the Prince." And with a glance up ahead, he got up off the ground, stood on his own two feet again and ran away. "Phew" said the man to himself, left behind in the garden. "For a minute there, I thought I'd have to actually run with this message to the Prince". And with that he returned to his prayers. Quickly he realized he was done, packed up his things and headed for home. (The invention of math came to us in the ensuing moments after the brief encounter between the runner and the praying man. The runner got the idea that as long as he kept ahead of the enemy, by taking short breathers along the way, he'd do his job. And get paid. The man praying became lost in the thoughts about being held accountable for the non-delivery of a message entrusted to him by constabulary authorization of, presumeably, a member of the King's court, the loss of both hands, probably a very bloody and painful proposition, and likely his own death. Also there was the fact that he, only a man of prayer, would never get paid for doing this nice thing for the messenger, had he actually managed
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you are confused! black hole is physics! math is just a tool about numbers and logic (certainly anything real) used by many people, including physicists....
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Math is just a language. Untruths can be told in any language. But math is suppose to be unambiguous, so you can tell truths from untruths. Which is why Steven Hawkings has now realized that the math describing black holes and the event horizon is untrue, it describes things that just can not be. The math of black holes was "made up" as a way to account for all the "missing mass". But there is a truthful way to account for that mass, it is "The Electric Universe". Look it up, you might learn something. I am not confused, I understand the math explaining the electric universe. Anyone believing the math of black holes is confused because the math just does not work - it is not unambiguous, it is not truthful.
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Math is just a language. Untruths can be told in any language. But math is suppose to be unambiguous, so you can tell truths from untruths. Which is why Steven Hawkings has now realized that the math describing black holes and the event horizon is untrue, it describes things that just can not be. The math of black holes was "made up" as a way to account for all the "missing mass". But there is a truthful way to account for that mass, it is "The Electric Universe". Look it up, you might learn something. I am not confused, I understand the math explaining the electric universe. Anyone believing the math of black holes is confused because the math just does not work - it is not unambiguous, it is not truthful.
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Mathematics must include all of its branches and that would include arithmetic. So say, multiple objects existed and were observed. That, however, doesn't make mathematics a discovery. It is the association of multiple objects as a group, and making that initial "one and one are different than one" ( . . . and we'll so note it . . . ) that is where mathematics begins. This is conceptual - and thus - an invention. Two rocks sitting near one another does not have to be thought of as two rocks. Why not simply "A rock" and "A rock" ? That still works. At the same time, they may not be near - but one could still conceive of them as two items that are in some (conceived!) category and then associated. Our mathematics is a description of observations - and not necessarily the only way one could describe the universe.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Our mathematics is a description of observations - and not necessarily the only way one could describe the universe.
No it isn't. You cannot observe a circle, (or any geometric shape come to that), because a circle is inscribed with a line of zero width equidistant at all points of zero dimension from another point of zero dimension. You cannot observe infinity (obviously) or zero or the square root of -1. It's dubious even whether you can observe number in any real sense. Mathematics is merely a system of logic. Any resemblance to real physical phenomena is entirely coincidental!
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New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site. I know the voices in my head are not real but damn they come up with some good ideas!
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Math is just a language. Untruths can be told in any language. But math is suppose to be unambiguous, so you can tell truths from untruths. Which is why Steven Hawkings has now realized that the math describing black holes and the event horizon is untrue, it describes things that just can not be. The math of black holes was "made up" as a way to account for all the "missing mass". But there is a truthful way to account for that mass, it is "The Electric Universe". Look it up, you might learn something. I am not confused, I understand the math explaining the electric universe. Anyone believing the math of black holes is confused because the math just does not work - it is not unambiguous, it is not truthful.
you are confused again! you confused the mathematical model of some physical event, with the event itself...
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