Best place to be a programmer..?
-
After yet another dismal British summer (link[^]), I've been thinking about whether to have a go at working abroad (which includes moving the family out with me :omg:). I'm considering the US, Canada and New Zealand (Australia would be too hot for my delicate British nature), but thought I'd ask people from those parts what it's really like to work in software and what the general lifestyles are like? Where are the best regions to find work and nice places to live? If there are any Brits that have moved already, how do things compare with the UK? It's difficult to get a realistic view from the internet (does that surprise anyone?) - it's either everywhere abroad is awful, or everywhere abroad is paradise - so I thought I'd ask here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
-
If you are asking the question, the can I assume your are not happy about some part of your current circumstances? Money? If it is money, then my only advice is to go where the money is. I love working here in the States, so the thought of working in another country, has never entered my tiny brain. I can't work for a country that is not an ally of my country.
Well money's important to survive, but it has to be balanced with other things in life :) The money's good in the UK, but what with the weather and the downbeat British "can't do" attitude (sorry about the generalisation here), I'm just wondering if it's worth a try elsewhere.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
-
In California you want to be in the San Francisco area, or head inland to Sacramento, state capitol and nearer the skiing/hiking/canoeing (some good rivers up near there in gold rush country). For Canada, Toronto is a bit dull perhaps, and very flat. Very very flat. Vancouver might be better, or if you speak French with a mutant accent Quebec is probably great. NZ would be good if you can get IT work there. Its an amazing country, one of the most beautiful. Kind of like Japan, but English speaking. And has everything. Aus, yes, it is popular, for a reason. Its good! Finance is a useful role though, it will take you round the world, often for the same bank. HSBC internal postings for example, probably cover most of the known world.
-
Well i was only thinking California because of the companies around SF (I don't imagine getting into Google or the like, but there are probably a lot of smaller tech firms around?)..
charlieg wrote:
Sounds like what you are looking for is a 4 season climate, relative short drives?
Yep, pretty much. Somewhere nice/safe to bring up a family, things to do outdoors, that kind of thing. Is there anywhere like that in the US?
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
All over the place. Most of the US is empty. :) You've just described small town Americana. The areas of the country vary so widely, it would be like a kid in the candy shop. Sounds like you are a lot like me, I'm north of Atlanta, close to the Appalachians (about an hour). I'd call it 3 1/2 seasons, as we normally don't get a lot of snow/ice. How we react to snow/ice is legendary insanity. :laugh: The entire Atlanta area is a changing mix of demographics. So many people have moved here from the north. I'm blessed with having a commute time of between 1 and 20 minutes. 1 min if I work at home, 20 if I drive local streets to my customer's plant. Now, if you were to buy in one place and work in another, you would have to factor in commute times. For example, if I had to work midtown, I would just plan on leaving for work well before 6am. It would be a 30 minute drive but freeway speeds. I'm not pushing Atlanta by any means. I'd buy an Atlas and start studying. I grew up in North Carolina, just up the road. If I had a dream place, it would be near the coast (I love to sail). If you can keep your expenses down (like not needing a 400K house), there are jobs all over the place.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
-
Well i was only thinking California because of the companies around SF (I don't imagine getting into Google or the like, but there are probably a lot of smaller tech firms around?)..
charlieg wrote:
Sounds like what you are looking for is a 4 season climate, relative short drives?
Yep, pretty much. Somewhere nice/safe to bring up a family, things to do outdoors, that kind of thing. Is there anywhere like that in the US?
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
Brent Jenkins wrote:
Somewhere nice/safe to bring up a family, things to do outdoors, that kind of thing. Is there anywhere like that in the US?
I haven't lived there myself, but North Carolina might be a good place to look. There's several good cities to live in and a decent amount of tech jobs sprouting up due to the presence of some highly ranked universities (Duke, UNC). You've got the coast on the east side, and the Appalachian Mountains on the west side.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
-
All over the place. Most of the US is empty. :) You've just described small town Americana. The areas of the country vary so widely, it would be like a kid in the candy shop. Sounds like you are a lot like me, I'm north of Atlanta, close to the Appalachians (about an hour). I'd call it 3 1/2 seasons, as we normally don't get a lot of snow/ice. How we react to snow/ice is legendary insanity. :laugh: The entire Atlanta area is a changing mix of demographics. So many people have moved here from the north. I'm blessed with having a commute time of between 1 and 20 minutes. 1 min if I work at home, 20 if I drive local streets to my customer's plant. Now, if you were to buy in one place and work in another, you would have to factor in commute times. For example, if I had to work midtown, I would just plan on leaving for work well before 6am. It would be a 30 minute drive but freeway speeds. I'm not pushing Atlanta by any means. I'd buy an Atlas and start studying. I grew up in North Carolina, just up the road. If I had a dream place, it would be near the coast (I love to sail). If you can keep your expenses down (like not needing a 400K house), there are jobs all over the place.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Yeah, I'm not really a city guy but don't mind living within commutable distance :) It's just a case of getting to grips with which areas are good or bad, in terms of work and general lifestyle.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
-
Well money's important to survive, but it has to be balanced with other things in life :) The money's good in the UK, but what with the weather and the downbeat British "can't do" attitude (sorry about the generalisation here), I'm just wondering if it's worth a try elsewhere.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
Brent Jenkins wrote:
British "can't do" attitude
Well, it is no better in the States. Although I love working here, the "Won't do, not my job" attitude is prevalent - I am not sorry for the generalization. :) Good luck in your search.
-
Brent Jenkins wrote:
Somewhere nice/safe to bring up a family, things to do outdoors, that kind of thing. Is there anywhere like that in the US?
I haven't lived there myself, but North Carolina might be a good place to look. There's several good cities to live in and a decent amount of tech jobs sprouting up due to the presence of some highly ranked universities (Duke, UNC). You've got the coast on the east side, and the Appalachian Mountains on the west side.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
-
Brent Jenkins wrote:
British "can't do" attitude
Well, it is no better in the States. Although I love working here, the "Won't do, not my job" attitude is prevalent - I am not sorry for the generalization. :) Good luck in your search.
-
Really? It always comes across as the opposite :confused:
Slacker007 wrote:
"Won't do, not my job" attitude
We have that here too.. :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
Brent Jenkins wrote:
It always comes across as the opposite
Not to get too political, but it is really bad here now, on many levels. Looks are deceiving. :sigh:
-
I resent this part "south is in the third world when it comes to IT." - true, Croatia isn't really south , but south-east, but we're still tech leaders (at least for my bank group) which includes such paragons of advanced technology as italy and austria :) And there are more then 1 successful firms coming from here with million+ income thanks to games and apps in stores. Quite good for mere 4 million people (as is said for New Zealand) Original poster: people speak passable english here and we're tourist country with good weather :)
Even northern Europe is nothing compared to the UK. IT there is a big industry, there are companies everywhere. But its good Croatia is doing well. I haven't seen any contracts over there though. Do you do much windows/linux kernel stuff?
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Vancouver might be better
Arghh, slip of the brain, I'd meant to write Vancouver :doh:
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
Supposedly one of the most beautiful cities/settings with skiing near by.
-
Even northern Europe is nothing compared to the UK. IT there is a big industry, there are companies everywhere. But its good Croatia is doing well. I haven't seen any contracts over there though. Do you do much windows/linux kernel stuff?
I'm a microsoft guy, so ... no :) There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high :) But I have no personal experience.
-
Brent Jenkins wrote:
It always comes across as the opposite
Not to get too political, but it is really bad here now, on many levels. Looks are deceiving. :sigh:
Hopefully things will turn around again? In some ways there seems to be a lost sense of direction everywhere at the moment. It's all the internet's fault, I tell ya! :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
-
I'm a microsoft guy, so ... no :) There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high :) But I have no personal experience.
Sinisa Hajnal wrote:
There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high
I'm not surprised they find the cost of living high if they're living in GB and working in Ireland. They should try living in the same country as they work, or at least on the same island.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
-
I'm a microsoft guy, so ... no :) There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high :) But I have no personal experience.
IT is big in Ireland too, but its a bit of a dump with appalling weather.
-
Sinisa Hajnal wrote:
There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high
I'm not surprised they find the cost of living high if they're living in GB and working in Ireland. They should try living in the same country as they work, or at least on the same island.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Holyhead to Dub? About 40 mins isn't it? :)
-
Holyhead to Dub? About 40 mins isn't it? :)
-
After yet another dismal British summer (link[^]), I've been thinking about whether to have a go at working abroad (which includes moving the family out with me :omg:). I'm considering the US, Canada and New Zealand (Australia would be too hot for my delicate British nature), but thought I'd ask people from those parts what it's really like to work in software and what the general lifestyles are like? Where are the best regions to find work and nice places to live? If there are any Brits that have moved already, how do things compare with the UK? It's difficult to get a realistic view from the internet (does that surprise anyone?) - it's either everywhere abroad is awful, or everywhere abroad is paradise - so I thought I'd ask here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
We moved from South Africa to the US. We looked at Australia and Canada as well but decided on the US since the country is diverse and chances are high that you'll eventually find somewhere that is a good fit. We avoided California because it seems that, for the most part, most employers expect you to work long hours. They provide great benefits and the pay is good. They have a high turn-over rate. I was surprised to find out recently that there is no restraint of trade in certain areas and so it is easy to move onto a different job in the same area. We lived in Florida for a while when I went to University there. The weather is great, there are a lot of outdoor things to do. I found that, in general, the people that you meet on the street not to be super-friendly, but they were friendly enough. As for prospects, 5 years ago I was not able to find any programming work at a place that was prepared to help with a work visa. We're now in Kansas and the work environment is great - a family-comes-first sort of place that also happens to do some fun things. The weather can get quite cold in the winter and hot in the summer.
-
We pay about the same here for gas and electric combined. Do you use electric for heating, or is there a separate bill for that?
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.