A debate: making votes non-anonymous
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I'm a long-time CP member. Back when we had the 1-5 voting scheme, I voted on posts a lot. I eventually realized I was using net anonymity as an excuse for bad behavior. My New Years resolution that year was to never vote on a post again. If I like what someone says, I comment on it. If I disagree, I comment on it. No anonymity, and much less bad behavior on my part. I feel like my karma has improved somewhat.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
No. People who want non-anonymous voting in any arena are always those who seeks to control the outcome. If you cannot handle the critics and the trolls then do not put yourself out there for them to come at you... this is not complicated stuff.
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I would suggest two separate voting systems: one anonymous, fast, without any comments, and a more complete option, like a review, with the score plus suggestions/criticism.
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We can already be non-anonymous by leaving a comment, right? I think if people wanted to be non-anonymous they'd leave a comment...
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I agree, if someone really feels strongly about something (positive or negative), they can leave a comment. In fact, I don't pay much attention to the votes at all. I find that if someone doesn't actually take the time to write even a quick response to what they disagree with, then it's likely not that important anyway; and they just need a hug. Same goes with an upvote, they just seem like a "Hey, hi five Bro", and my sister does that to my nephew when he uses the "potty".
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Perhaps there's a new category. What's called up/down votes today becomes something more like opinions, which are public and must be backed up with some explanatory text. (Maybe only for downs, what didn't you like?). Then, a simple like/dislike category for those who have only a nebulous feeling, or don't want to get into the muck of the why they feel some way. That might give an overall measure of popularity, plus some details for those who are inclined to provide them.
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No. People who want non-anonymous voting in any arena are always those who seeks to control the outcome. If you cannot handle the critics and the trolls then do not put yourself out there for them to come at you... this is not complicated stuff.
Rowdy Raider wrote:
People who want non-anonymous voting in any arena are always those who seeks to control the outcome
I disagree with that generalised statement completely. Some do, some don't. Read the comments of others.
cheers Chris Maunder
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I'm a long-time CP member. Back when we had the 1-5 voting scheme, I voted on posts a lot. I eventually realized I was using net anonymity as an excuse for bad behavior. My New Years resolution that year was to never vote on a post again. If I like what someone says, I comment on it. If I disagree, I comment on it. No anonymity, and much less bad behavior on my part. I feel like my karma has improved somewhat.
Software Zen:
delete this;You're a good man, Gary.
cheers Chris Maunder
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You're a good man, Gary.
cheers Chris Maunder
Thanks, Chris :-\ .
Software Zen:
delete this; -
_Maxxx_ wrote:
My down vote may have much merit, but I don't have the time/inclination to enter a debate about it.
Then it has no merit, and serves no constructive purpose. The user knows that someone didn't like something, but has no recourse to find out what it was, or to engage in conversation to fix it or discuss it. Your down vote without accountability, satisfies your ego, but nothing else.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I get the feeling everyone's focussing on the minority, not the general majority.
Which majority are you thinking about? The 80000 users online or the 500? active users? (What is that number actually?) I think the active majority would stop downvoting if we have complete transparency. So the choice ends up being between transparency and a functional rating system, and while transparency is (should be) more important for the active users, a functional rating system is more important for the silent majority I believe. So here's the twist, while a functional rating system is important for the silent majority, having a happy active user group is important for having an actual functional rating system.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Against - would degenerate into tit-for-tat up or down votes based on the person not the article. (I say this as a barely functional psychopath myself and imagine I'm not alone in that)
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
How about a different option? Leave voting anonymous but require a reason to be given when down voting.
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I am FOR showing the names of down-voters. If they truly feel the article or topic warrants a down-vote, then they should be able to stand behind their decision, publicly. A side-effect of this that will most likely be a benefit, is that people will be more careful about publicly down-voting an article or topic, then before, because now, we all know who did it, and they better have a good reason. Most of us are professionals here, and down-voting, when done correctly, is a form of constructive criticism. Showing the names of down-voters, helps the process be done correctly. The only con for this, that comes to my mind, is "tit for tat", childish arguments, that may ensue for a brief period of time. You may see an increase in tattle-telling in the Bugs & Sugs, but that should die down after a while.
Slacker007 wrote:
now, we all know who did it, and they better have a good reason.
i understand the sentiment, but THIS is why voting is private in almost all circumstances (unless you're deciding on donuts): the threat of retaliation. in a way, we're lucky that this is a virtual world so people can speak their minds. but this discussion is conflating the physical and virtual. the virtual aspect makes it difficult; laughable in a way: what possible retaliation can there be? cyber-bullying i guess. the need for good feedback is very real, but voting... i still lean on the side of anonymity because of the sentiment above (which we could all end up feeling at some point). as others have said, people can comment if they want. and votees can ask around. the "best" decision can probably only come through several iterations and extensive testing (which i bet you don't want to do).
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Would it be fine to have an option of a small check box to let the voter select if s/he wants to show the name or not
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Rowdy Raider wrote:
People who want non-anonymous voting in any arena are always those who seeks to control the outcome
I disagree with that generalised statement completely. Some do, some don't. Read the comments of others.
cheers Chris Maunder
I defy you to provide one motivation which does not align with my statement.
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Could you pin this post as the first Lounge post until the debate is closed (= until you think there is enough matter for you to decide) ? I think it would help for the visibility of the discussion.
I've got the feedback I needed - it was perfect. I'm refining now.
cheers Chris Maunder
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I've got the feedback I needed - it was perfect. I'm refining now.
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
it was perfect.
:-D I am glad you could derive something out of this overall white noise :rolleyes:
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Sad to see how firmly the fascist mind-set is entrenched in the minds of our "smart young men". Have you ever wondered why "real" votes are anonymous? Have you pondered the fate of Brendan Eich? Note: "Debate" is where people argue an idea back and forth - "posting" and "commenting" in this context. "Voting" is what people do when they want to signal their approval, or not, of something. "Voting" is generally considered to be a "Yes/No" action. Only a fascist believes that it is reasonable, or even possible, to browbeat someone into changing their vote.
