Paranoid Thought of the Day
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
If they haven't already thought of doing it, you've just given them the idea.:suss:
Will Rogers never met me.
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
Your government would never lie to you! Sincerely, Your government :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Member 9082365 wrote:
Two words. 3D Printer!
You are dismissing the access problem. Sure they could make the print now they need someone to hack into your device to get it (or the servers that supposedly have it). 3D printers can not spoof a finger print scan anyways. Not even close. Go buy the most high tech one available and it still won't work. And that is the point. Criminals are not known to spend a lot of money, especially on something that probably won't work and does not actually solve the problem. Even with the ability to make a 3D print of your finger print they still need the finger print. So now they have to hack the into well secured systems to get it (if they are even there!!!). Seems this is no longer a "common criminal". I am not dismissing that it can be done with a butt load of money and high tech gear, but that is not a common criminal by any means.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
Having worked for a company that used the fingerprint technology in its security system, I managed a look under the hood, so to speak. For the technology to work, a live finger with a blood flow is required. The readers measure the blood flow pattern just under the surface of the skin as masked by the spirals and whorls in your print. A 3D copy of your finger just isn't up to the job. Besides, if you are concerned about using a cell phone with fingerprint security, get something else.
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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GStrad wrote:
Fingerprints are far more valuable to criminals than they are to security agencies for the moment.
That is a very good point, but it is not like these large tech companies just let criminals have access to this stuff. They are even taking measures to prevent the NSA from having access to your personal data since the Prism exposure.
GStrad wrote:
With the approaches that can be used to spoof fingerprints from data how long before we start to see criminals wearing gloves with someone else's prints become common?
The likelihood of common criminals doing this anytime soon is near nil. Sure super spy agency stuff I would not doubt. But I doubt any super spy cares about getting into my devices. Although I do have a pretty shweet pron collection.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
First paranoia is a survival skill. Second techies wanting to make a fast buck could develop systems to make and customize the gloves to sell to criminals. Lastly I work for the government and evil intent is not the problem. It is the ineptitude of managers that sets us up for such major disasters as the OPM hack. Your finger prints are now in the hands of criminals and foreign agents.
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The FBI and NSA I suppose
I repeat: Who cares what the FBI and the NSA care about. I keep my nose clean. If they want to poke around in my life, let them knock themselves out. They will find nothing!
How do we preserve the wisdom men will need, when their violent passions are spent? - The Lost Horizon
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
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Quote:
The FBI and NSA I suppose
I repeat: Who cares what the FBI and the NSA care about. I keep my nose clean. If they want to poke around in my life, let them knock themselves out. They will find nothing!
How do we preserve the wisdom men will need, when their violent passions are spent? - The Lost Horizon
This is why you should care: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2990203/security/aclu-orwellian-citizen-score-chinas-credit-score-system-is-a-warning-for-americans.html[^] It may not be the case in the West (yet), but there is an ever-present danger that it will. And then it will be too late to question it
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
As opposed to what "they" already know (or could find out) about you from your financial transactions, online presence (facebook, linkedin, twitter, CP postings... etc.), phone records, texts, tax returns, voter registration records, school transcripts, ad infinitum. I ask you, what further erosion of privacy could having your fingerprint (or iris scan, or hand geometry, or palm print, or voice pattern, or face image) possibly amount to?
Cheers, Mike Fidler "I intend to live forever - so far, so good." Steven Wright "I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." Also Steven Wright "I'm addicted to placebos. I could quit, but it wouldn't matter." Steven Wright yet again.
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
Fingerprint scanners on phones and keyboards don't take very good fingerprints. they are good enough to distinguish between the phone owner and a random sample most of the time. That's all they have to do. If the NSA wants your prints, they just send the FBI (because NSA doesn't have field offices within the United States) to break into your home or car or office without a warrant and take 'em. Warrants are for wimps. They can always fake up probable cause later to get new prints for the forensic record.
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
Better question.... Why would Apple/Google/Microsoft engage in an activity that, if discovered, would severely damage their credibility, lead to multi-million dollar lawsuits, and possibly result in some executives going to jail --- all for the benefit of some third-party organization? How would they keep the 100s is developers/QA testers/executives quiet about an obviously illegal activity? How would they keep the transmission of the data secret for the hackers and security pros carefully monitoring every package transmitted, looking for flaws?
Truth, James
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
Even better: Hackers have already learned how to harvest your fingerprint from your cell phone or tablet if it has fingerprint recognition installed. even if you don't use it. If someone steal your password you can get another. But you can't get new fingerprints.
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GStrad wrote:
Fingerprints are far more valuable to criminals than they are to security agencies for the moment.
That is a very good point, but it is not like these large tech companies just let criminals have access to this stuff. They are even taking measures to prevent the NSA from having access to your personal data since the Prism exposure.
GStrad wrote:
With the approaches that can be used to spoof fingerprints from data how long before we start to see criminals wearing gloves with someone else's prints become common?
The likelihood of common criminals doing this anytime soon is near nil. Sure super spy agency stuff I would not doubt. But I doubt any super spy cares about getting into my devices. Although I do have a pretty shweet pron collection.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
Xaotiq wrote:
The likelihood of common criminals doing this anytime soon is near nil.
See, I think that very lack of evidence that hackers are exploiting fingerprint scans demonstrates that they are indeed not being sent to the CIA/NSA/IRS, etc. Because, you know, zero day.
Moe's Hypothesis: "If hackers have not exploited a particular set of data, that data has not been collected or used in any meaningful way."
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
No. I work in the fingerprint sensor industry. I'm not aware of any such program. It would undermine people's faith in the integrity of the system. Plus data is usually encrypted when stored or transmitted anyways.
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Even better: Hackers have already learned how to harvest your fingerprint from your cell phone or tablet if it has fingerprint recognition installed. even if you don't use it. If someone steal your password you can get another. But you can't get new fingerprints.
BS. That Chaos Club so-called "hack" is in practical terms nonsense. Because it's completely impractical to perform the "hack" for a random person. The "hack" required physical access to the phone itself. You leave your fingerprints EVERYWHERE. I don't need to steal them off your phone if I REALLY REALLY want them. Like off the glass of your phone, for example.
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BS. That Chaos Club so-called "hack" is in practical terms nonsense. Because it's completely impractical to perform the "hack" for a random person. The "hack" required physical access to the phone itself. You leave your fingerprints EVERYWHERE. I don't need to steal them off your phone if I REALLY REALLY want them. Like off the glass of your phone, for example.
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We know that around the world law enforcement agencies collect fingerprints of all those arrested for crimes. In addition, the US has been collecting ingerprints of all those who apply for any kind of visa. Am I paranoid in thinking that the fingerprint readers used in cellphones, tablets and the like send our index finger print straight to the FBI, NSA, etc.?
Of course.... they also send them to the Illuminati, the Priori of Sion (formed by those darn Elders), the Super Saiyan and to a special account of the Guardians of the Galaxy. This all happens in real time. No wonder it takes so much time to actually log in using Touch Id. ;P
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Quote:
The FBI and NSA I suppose
I repeat: Who cares what the FBI and the NSA care about. I keep my nose clean. If they want to poke around in my life, let them knock themselves out. They will find nothing!
How do we preserve the wisdom men will need, when their violent passions are spent? - The Lost Horizon
Even if you "keep your nose clean", you probably still care. The government has made identification mistakes, just look up Brandon Mayfield and the Madrid Bombings. Do you really want something like what happened to him, to happen to you?
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Quote:
The FBI and NSA I suppose
I repeat: Who cares what the FBI and the NSA care about. I keep my nose clean. If they want to poke around in my life, let them knock themselves out. They will find nothing!
How do we preserve the wisdom men will need, when their violent passions are spent? - The Lost Horizon
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229[^] Scooter Libby had nothing to do with what he was investigated for. But he was convicted of lying to the investigators and spent time in a federal cell. The guy who actually committed the crime Scooter was investigated for - was never even questioned. Everyone is a criminal. Right now. They just have to decide if they need to convict you.
