A russian missile shoot down flight Mh17.. but ... but .. but..
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I'm a billionare!
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Doh! :-O :laugh:
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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What the media does not say is that nearly all the military hardware in the Ukraine is Russian made and if we follow the same twisted logic they are using then we need to blame the USA for everyone ISIS kills since they are using american guns and ammo hand over to them by the so called "Moderate rebels" in Syria. The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening. Russia has shown that a BUK missile lauchers, one of three was missing from base when flight mh17 was shoot down, yes they release the images and the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident. The same media puppets also twisted the story about Russia using its veto at the UN to prevent a criminal investigation into flight MH17 which is true but the bit they are not telling you is that the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin after it had been running for a year, russia rightly blocked this decision at the UN. Now i don't know who shoot it down but i do know that we are being feed half truths by our state media.
The Dutch report did not say where the missile came from, only the direction, and who made it.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening
What is this sentence even supposed to mean? Prevented? Kiev lost about 15 military aircraft in the region to missiles in the week leading up to MH17. If they were capable of preventing anything that wouldn't have happened, would it?
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident.
Cite please, the Dutch said no such thing as far as I am aware.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin
Cite please. As far as I am aware the US wanted a warm crime investigation.
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The Dutch report did not say where the missile came from, only the direction, and who made it.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening
What is this sentence even supposed to mean? Prevented? Kiev lost about 15 military aircraft in the region to missiles in the week leading up to MH17. If they were capable of preventing anything that wouldn't have happened, would it?
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident.
Cite please, the Dutch said no such thing as far as I am aware.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin
Cite please. As far as I am aware the US wanted a warm crime investigation.
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:)
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I thought it was the opposite of a "cold case". :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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The Dutch report did not say where the missile came from, only the direction, and who made it.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening
What is this sentence even supposed to mean? Prevented? Kiev lost about 15 military aircraft in the region to missiles in the week leading up to MH17. If they were capable of preventing anything that wouldn't have happened, would it?
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident.
Cite please, the Dutch said no such thing as far as I am aware.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin
Cite please. As far as I am aware the US wanted a warm crime investigation.
Hitting a helicopter and low flying fighter is not the same as hitting something thats five miles high and begs the question of why the air-space was still kept open by Kiev. Direction does indicate the location but lets face it the US government knew who shoot it down before it even hit the ground according to the press. if Kiev had nothing to hide then why did they keep shelling the area at first so that investigators could not get near the area. As far as I am aware the US wanted a warm crime investigation I take it you mean "War Crime" and yes the US came out with this a year after the Dutch investigation got started and wanted the investigation scrapped, Russia was forced to use its veto not so much to stop the investigation but to stop the US from dragging it out. Too me, well i am not sure an investigation can prove much since if the USA had a smoking gun then we would all know about it by now, they just want to kick the can down the road whilst still misleading the public that they know that Russia did it. Time for Uncle Sam to put up or shut up me thinks
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What the media does not say is that nearly all the military hardware in the Ukraine is Russian made and if we follow the same twisted logic they are using then we need to blame the USA for everyone ISIS kills since they are using american guns and ammo hand over to them by the so called "Moderate rebels" in Syria. The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening. Russia has shown that a BUK missile lauchers, one of three was missing from base when flight mh17 was shoot down, yes they release the images and the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident. The same media puppets also twisted the story about Russia using its veto at the UN to prevent a criminal investigation into flight MH17 which is true but the bit they are not telling you is that the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin after it had been running for a year, russia rightly blocked this decision at the UN. Now i don't know who shoot it down but i do know that we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
does not say is that nearly all the military hardware in the Ukraine is Russian made
It does here, continously. They obviously don't want to call it soviet-technology.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
we need to blame the USA for everyone ISIS kills since they are using american guns
What did the Wikileaks say about the origin of ISIS? :)
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident.
The Dutch news claimed it was coming from rebel-held area, although they cannot say from where. There was also an article that ridiculed the Russians for claiming that it came from Kiev, since that could be expected.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Do you mean that the government is lying? I am shocked!
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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What the media does not say is that nearly all the military hardware in the Ukraine is Russian made and if we follow the same twisted logic they are using then we need to blame the USA for everyone ISIS kills since they are using american guns and ammo hand over to them by the so called "Moderate rebels" in Syria. The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening. Russia has shown that a BUK missile lauchers, one of three was missing from base when flight mh17 was shoot down, yes they release the images and the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident. The same media puppets also twisted the story about Russia using its veto at the UN to prevent a criminal investigation into flight MH17 which is true but the bit they are not telling you is that the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin after it had been running for a year, russia rightly blocked this decision at the UN. Now i don't know who shoot it down but i do know that we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Hey everybody, it's the neighborhood troll, again. :laugh:
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What the media does not say is that nearly all the military hardware in the Ukraine is Russian made and if we follow the same twisted logic they are using then we need to blame the USA for everyone ISIS kills since they are using american guns and ammo hand over to them by the so called "Moderate rebels" in Syria. The ukraine government in kiew have hundreds of BUK missiles under it's control along with launch codes and air control over the sky that could had prevented this incident from ever happening. Russia has shown that a BUK missile lauchers, one of three was missing from base when flight mh17 was shoot down, yes they release the images and the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident. The same media puppets also twisted the story about Russia using its veto at the UN to prevent a criminal investigation into flight MH17 which is true but the bit they are not telling you is that the USA wanted to dump the Dutch investigation in the bin after it had been running for a year, russia rightly blocked this decision at the UN. Now i don't know who shoot it down but i do know that we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
Now I don't know who shoot it down but i do know that we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Except for the spelling I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment! And it's not only your state media Germanies main stream media suffers from the same predicament. Not that this is in any way noteworthyly conspicious Germany being a vassal state after all. Cheers!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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Hitting a helicopter and low flying fighter is not the same as hitting something thats five miles high and begs the question of why the air-space was still kept open by Kiev. Direction does indicate the location but lets face it the US government knew who shoot it down before it even hit the ground according to the press. if Kiev had nothing to hide then why did they keep shelling the area at first so that investigators could not get near the area. As far as I am aware the US wanted a warm crime investigation I take it you mean "War Crime" and yes the US came out with this a year after the Dutch investigation got started and wanted the investigation scrapped, Russia was forced to use its veto not so much to stop the investigation but to stop the US from dragging it out. Too me, well i am not sure an investigation can prove much since if the USA had a smoking gun then we would all know about it by now, they just want to kick the can down the road whilst still misleading the public that they know that Russia did it. Time for Uncle Sam to put up or shut up me thinks
Dr Gadgit wrote:
Hitting a helicopter and low flying fighter
Look at the facts. Some of the aircraft bought down were at altitude.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
Direction does indicate the location but lets face it the US government knew who shoot it down before it even hit the ground according to the press.
Because the US has missile tracking satellites in orbit. And no, it wasn't before it hit the ground, don't be facetious.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
if Kiev had nothing to hide then why did they keep shelling the area at first so that investigators could not get near the area.
Because the are was full of Russians firing at them? What would you expect, for them to take incoming from an area of 50 sq kms or so? It more l;ikely an indication they didn't know a passenger plane had crashed. The simple facts show the missile approached the plane from the front, the plane was traveling towards the east, and it crashed in Russian held territory. This means the missile came from the east, and from Russian territory. Unless you think a BUJ missile has a sufficient range and guidance system so sneaky it can travel many kms from the west, go past the plane, turn around, and the head back east?
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Dr Gadgit wrote:
Now I don't know who shoot it down but i do know that we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Except for the spelling I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment! And it's not only your state media Germanies main stream media suffers from the same predicament. Not that this is in any way noteworthyly conspicious Germany being a vassal state after all. Cheers!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
Manfred Rudolf Bihy wrote:
And it's not only your state media Germanies main stream media suffers from the same predicament.
Well that's basically because most of the "main stream" media is forced to agree a contract on which they state that they will only report pro USA and pro NATO. Even criticism against this followed by a howl of praise.
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I'm a billionare!
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
And you're giving all the money to me!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Manfred Rudolf Bihy wrote:
And it's not only your state media Germanies main stream media suffers from the same predicament.
Well that's basically because most of the "main stream" media is forced to agree a contract on which they state that they will only report pro USA and pro NATO. Even criticism against this followed by a howl of praise.
if(this.signature != "")
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}Presuming you and Gadget aren't, in fact, the same poster:
HobbyProggy wrote:
because most of the "main stream" media is forced to agree a contract . . . etc
Would you care to give a reference to that statement or is just to make you feel good about yourself?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Presuming you and Gadget aren't, in fact, the same poster:
HobbyProggy wrote:
because most of the "main stream" media is forced to agree a contract . . . etc
Would you care to give a reference to that statement or is just to make you feel good about yourself?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
If you can speak german, because, please note that i am speaking about German Media cause there i know for sure it's like that. I can't speak for other counties but expect them also to be not 100% honest :) Report about ukraine crisis gets critized[^] Critics get invited to Spiegel to get told they should not critizise and everything is fine[^] Wrong usage of videos to confuse the viewer[^] The rules for ARD[^] Translated out of that :"The fundamentals go directly or inderictly back to the so called 10 laws in which the american occupying officers 1946 wrote the central points of their vision of a democratic radio broadcasting." This thing goes even deeper but won't search any more, also (i know not a good source) i know a news paper journalist who proved this theory. I really don't like it also, i don't want to believe it but if you open the eyes a little more you'll sadly see it's like that.
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If you can speak german, because, please note that i am speaking about German Media cause there i know for sure it's like that. I can't speak for other counties but expect them also to be not 100% honest :) Report about ukraine crisis gets critized[^] Critics get invited to Spiegel to get told they should not critizise and everything is fine[^] Wrong usage of videos to confuse the viewer[^] The rules for ARD[^] Translated out of that :"The fundamentals go directly or inderictly back to the so called 10 laws in which the american occupying officers 1946 wrote the central points of their vision of a democratic radio broadcasting." This thing goes even deeper but won't search any more, also (i know not a good source) i know a news paper journalist who proved this theory. I really don't like it also, i don't want to believe it but if you open the eyes a little more you'll sadly see it's like that.
if(this.signature != "")
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}I watch a lot of international news - mostly English versions. I find them all far more biased then US news. On the other hand, I find US news stations (for local consumption) seem to just leave out too much of what's going on in the world. And, of course, we all have our raving lunatics (such as Fox News). DW is better, at least in terms of presenting a neutral picture of what's going on, then SkyNews, BBC, or CNN. I've actually begun to watch DW (German version) and this other streaming station that's only in German to try to pickup up listening skills and get something like a vocabulary and grammar (other than the infamous 'bubble-gum Deutsch'). I note the discrepancy particularly when it involves the Middle East.* But forgetting the details of any particular subject, one type of posting that drives me quite up-the-wall is the endless amount of conspiracies. And if one says otherwise, hears, otherwise, or reads otherwise, it's all just blown over as a cover-up. The old habit of blaming one's ills on 'the outsider' has been a bulwark of European culture since - well - forever. It is rather comfortable to invoke. Criticism of the US is all but constant on the European news. In fact, whilst I had it, CCTV (from PR China) was more even-handed in it's discussion of world events - except those that relate to China in anything but a positive light. One thing I noted, and it makes sense: German news is far more involved with refugees than other stations - and the US has it's own immigrant problems so they mainly stick to the more sensational events. My take, unfortunately, is that Europe is being colonized and cultural assimilation is ever less likely: you guys are so screwed! * Carefully crafted 'lead-ins' to minimize or maximize an event to suit station's needs.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Hey everybody, it's the neighborhood troll, again. :laugh:
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Dr Gadgit wrote:
does not say is that nearly all the military hardware in the Ukraine is Russian made
It does here, continously. They obviously don't want to call it soviet-technology.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
we need to blame the USA for everyone ISIS kills since they are using american guns
What did the Wikileaks say about the origin of ISIS? :)
Dr Gadgit wrote:
the Dutch investigation has said that the missle was launched from an area that was under kiev's control at the time of the incident.
The Dutch news claimed it was coming from rebel-held area, although they cannot say from where. There was also an article that ridiculed the Russians for claiming that it came from Kiev, since that could be expected.
Dr Gadgit wrote:
we are being feed half truths by our state media.
Do you mean that the government is lying? I am shocked!
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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I watch a lot of international news - mostly English versions. I find them all far more biased then US news. On the other hand, I find US news stations (for local consumption) seem to just leave out too much of what's going on in the world. And, of course, we all have our raving lunatics (such as Fox News). DW is better, at least in terms of presenting a neutral picture of what's going on, then SkyNews, BBC, or CNN. I've actually begun to watch DW (German version) and this other streaming station that's only in German to try to pickup up listening skills and get something like a vocabulary and grammar (other than the infamous 'bubble-gum Deutsch'). I note the discrepancy particularly when it involves the Middle East.* But forgetting the details of any particular subject, one type of posting that drives me quite up-the-wall is the endless amount of conspiracies. And if one says otherwise, hears, otherwise, or reads otherwise, it's all just blown over as a cover-up. The old habit of blaming one's ills on 'the outsider' has been a bulwark of European culture since - well - forever. It is rather comfortable to invoke. Criticism of the US is all but constant on the European news. In fact, whilst I had it, CCTV (from PR China) was more even-handed in it's discussion of world events - except those that relate to China in anything but a positive light. One thing I noted, and it makes sense: German news is far more involved with refugees than other stations - and the US has it's own immigrant problems so they mainly stick to the more sensational events. My take, unfortunately, is that Europe is being colonized and cultural assimilation is ever less likely: you guys are so screwed! * Carefully crafted 'lead-ins' to minimize or maximize an event to suit station's needs.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
As promised :)
W∴ Balboos wrote:
On the other hand, I find US news stations (for local consumption) seem to just leave out too much of what's going on in the world.
Well i guess, it's just a guess, that amarica does not want to care so much about rest of the world.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
I note the discrepancy particularly when it involves the Middle East.*
Yeah, this is one of the most disturbing things in german media, we do get a "translation" but who the hell knows if it's correct(You couldn't even check because the translator is too loud, you wont hear the original sound). But i experienced some translation issues, when they failed to overlay the OV and there were some mistakes and even changes of the original in it.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
But forgetting the details of any particular subject, one type of posting that drives me quite up-the-wall is the endless amount of conspiracies. And if one says otherwise, hears, otherwise, or reads otherwise, it's all just blown over as a cover-up. The old habit of blaming one's ills on 'the outsider' has been a bulwark of European culture since - well - forever. It is rather comfortable to invoke.
I also hate that, a lot of Europeans hate that but problem is once a theory is born it's in someones mind. BTW it is fairly easy to create one so yeah i understand the amount of it is disturbing. Thank god that 90% are Bullish. But the other 10% do show that not everything they is so wrong.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Criticism of the US is all but constant on the European news. In fact, whilst I had it, CCTV (from PR China) was more even-handed in it's discussion of world events - except those that relate to China in anything but a positive light.
Well i don't know DW, actually we don't even have that in our TV programs. But i can tell you that if there is a comparison between Russia and USA the US always will get praised at while Russia remains the brutal dictorship. For me one of the best examples is the current Syria crisis, Russia gets in, mops up and bombs EVERY terrorist. USA and (NATO) play a little ball there and shoot this off and that but without a proper target. Who gets the blame? Russia, who destabilized this country?...
W∴ Balboos wro
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As promised :)
W∴ Balboos wrote:
On the other hand, I find US news stations (for local consumption) seem to just leave out too much of what's going on in the world.
Well i guess, it's just a guess, that amarica does not want to care so much about rest of the world.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
I note the discrepancy particularly when it involves the Middle East.*
Yeah, this is one of the most disturbing things in german media, we do get a "translation" but who the hell knows if it's correct(You couldn't even check because the translator is too loud, you wont hear the original sound). But i experienced some translation issues, when they failed to overlay the OV and there were some mistakes and even changes of the original in it.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
But forgetting the details of any particular subject, one type of posting that drives me quite up-the-wall is the endless amount of conspiracies. And if one says otherwise, hears, otherwise, or reads otherwise, it's all just blown over as a cover-up. The old habit of blaming one's ills on 'the outsider' has been a bulwark of European culture since - well - forever. It is rather comfortable to invoke.
I also hate that, a lot of Europeans hate that but problem is once a theory is born it's in someones mind. BTW it is fairly easy to create one so yeah i understand the amount of it is disturbing. Thank god that 90% are Bullish. But the other 10% do show that not everything they is so wrong.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Criticism of the US is all but constant on the European news. In fact, whilst I had it, CCTV (from PR China) was more even-handed in it's discussion of world events - except those that relate to China in anything but a positive light.
Well i don't know DW, actually we don't even have that in our TV programs. But i can tell you that if there is a comparison between Russia and USA the US always will get praised at while Russia remains the brutal dictorship. For me one of the best examples is the current Syria crisis, Russia gets in, mops up and bombs EVERY terrorist. USA and (NATO) play a little ball there and shoot this off and that but without a proper target. Who gets the blame? Russia, who destabilized this country?...
W∴ Balboos wro
Selected responses - too much to do today.
HobbyProggy wrote:
Well i guess, it's just a guess, that amarica does not want to care so much about rest of the world.
It's really more of a what information is presented. There is, after all, no choice in the matter. You just pick networks/affiliates and/or local stations and get their version of the story. The rest is take-it-or-leave-it. These days, the 'presenters' are mainly just talking heads. Once upon a time they were actually smart people.
HobbyProggy wrote:
in german media, we do get a "translation" but who the hell knows if it's correct
Aside from that, what I observed with two back-to-back international news shows, was the same item presented twice. First it was DW, and then BBC. BBC didn't quite lie - but left out key information that completely changed the context. Lies by omission seems to be the heart and soul of British news. Case in point: I watch i24 news along with the other overseas broadcasts (http://www.i24news.tv/en/[^] english). There was an item (a few days ago) about a mother and two girls in a car that was hit by a Molotov cocktail thrown by a Palestinian. All three were hurt, the four your old more seriously than the others. Since this could not be twisted in any way to get sympathy for the Palestinians it simply wasn't on any other news stream. No way to lead into the story with what amounts to an excuse for attacking innocent people at random. If you want to know the root of this terror I recommend you look up the Hebron Massacre - this from the 1929. The same old story: unfounded incitement by the Islamic clergy. Brutal attacks against innocents. It gives you a different perspective on what's really going on now when you realize that they did it before and didn't have the current excuses. It was also done in 1517. Now, along with true asylum seekers, these blood thirsty maniacs are colonizing your country. You article, which will take me a while to understand, is something of which I was totally unaware: Sunni/Shiite party games on your soil!
HobbyProggy wrote:
So for my part i just hope it ends fast, because Germany has now 2 REAL options
I fear that it's going to be as you say - although the first b
