Stop making me think, Apple!
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Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched. They Just Worked. Further, they were fairly obvious in how they worked. But how times have changed. Each iteration of the OS and the associated apps seem to involve more and more hidden UI cues. Jakob Neilson once railed against poorly discoverable UIs and it seems Apple is going deeper and deeper down that path. iTunes on the desktop and on the mobile device are two very different beasts, but they share a multiple personality disorder when it comes to trying to understand how the UI works. Is it a menu at the top? A sidebar? Is it a section heading that's actually a dropdown menu that switches the context in exactly the way (but different!) to the icons in the bottom bar? It's turned into a huge guessing game. I think I'm going to send the Apple UX guys a copy of the book Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability[^]
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
involve more and more hidden UI cues
What like having to move the mouse the the top right/left hand corner of the screen to make some option appear. I don't think it is just Apple!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Note I said "consumer device".
Noted. Please do take note that Personal Computers have replaced the so-called Home Computer.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Maybe I'm sheltered, but from memory every consumer device (including those tiny MP4 players) came with manuals in 10 languages that told you everything except how to most efficiently throw it against the wall when it stopped working.
Even my mechanical alarm-clock with bells has a manual in umpteen different languages. Nearly everything comes with a set of instructions, a
DISCLAIMER IN CAPS, a copyright notice, a trade-mark notice, list of ingredients, whether it is kosher or not and no real instructional value. The last VCR I have seen came with a manual that would make you cry as much as some XML-generated comments generated from source-code. You were talking however about UI-design on consumer-devices, something mostly dictated by the OS. I would say that the Workbench from the Amiga is still superiour, but in terms of killing documentation on consumer-devices, I'd say Windows was a step ahead.Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Quote:
I would say that the Workbench from the Amiga is still superiour,
I must admit I agree it worked and the right mouse button was sense. I had to use Windows 3 at the time no comparison :-)
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Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched. They Just Worked. Further, they were fairly obvious in how they worked. But how times have changed. Each iteration of the OS and the associated apps seem to involve more and more hidden UI cues. Jakob Neilson once railed against poorly discoverable UIs and it seems Apple is going deeper and deeper down that path. iTunes on the desktop and on the mobile device are two very different beasts, but they share a multiple personality disorder when it comes to trying to understand how the UI works. Is it a menu at the top? A sidebar? Is it a section heading that's actually a dropdown menu that switches the context in exactly the way (but different!) to the icons in the bottom bar? It's turned into a huge guessing game. I think I'm going to send the Apple UX guys a copy of the book Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability[^]
cheers Chris Maunder
I've spent years rebutting any suggestion to buy an Apple from the other half. Her professional cohort all own them. Now she wins an iPad air for renewing her professional membership. I was impressed by how easy it was to get it up and running. Yes I did spend time taking the packaging apart looking for the quick start instructions. Now I can't find how to get to CP pages accessed by drop-down menus e.g Help>Bugs and Suggestions.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I've spent years rebutting any suggestion to buy an Apple from the other half. Her professional cohort all own them. Now she wins an iPad air for renewing her professional membership. I was impressed by how easy it was to get it up and running. Yes I did spend time taking the packaging apart looking for the quick start instructions. Now I can't find how to get to CP pages accessed by drop-down menus e.g Help>Bugs and Suggestions.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
If the device is iOS 9, menus don't work.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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If the device is iOS 9, menus don't work.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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That's helpful.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Something got changed which broke all web menus. At least MS tries to stay compatible. Apple seems to break things for the sake of breaking them.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched. They Just Worked. Further, they were fairly obvious in how they worked. But how times have changed. Each iteration of the OS and the associated apps seem to involve more and more hidden UI cues. Jakob Neilson once railed against poorly discoverable UIs and it seems Apple is going deeper and deeper down that path. iTunes on the desktop and on the mobile device are two very different beasts, but they share a multiple personality disorder when it comes to trying to understand how the UI works. Is it a menu at the top? A sidebar? Is it a section heading that's actually a dropdown menu that switches the context in exactly the way (but different!) to the icons in the bottom bar? It's turned into a huge guessing game. I think I'm going to send the Apple UX guys a copy of the book Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability[^]
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris, face it - you're getting older. This phenomenon started years ago in the video game market, and then exploded with the advent of smartphones. "UX" designers are creating modes of interaction that 'tweens and twentysomethings seem to inherently understand from prior exposure, but anyone older hasn't a clue how to use. The move toward the 'modern' UI, with flat monochrome graphics and little or no guiding text, is symptomatic. A lot of smartphone apps require dexterity that older folks can't achieve, due to small icons and close positioning. I've even seen desktop apps that call for triple-clicks :wtf: to perform certain actions. The end result will be a divide between those that can speak to the machines, and those that cannot. Those that cannot, the aged and the poor, will therefore not be full participants in the society being created.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Apple made a weird/bad/awful decision to merge both the legacy iTunes player and the new Music player. I personally have no issue with iTunes for music player, but the integration with Music make me want to bark all over my keyboard.
I'd rather be phishing!
Maximilien wrote:
...make me want to bark all over my keyboard.
Since k and f are no where near each other, I can only assume you indeed want to utter dog or seal-like noises. ;P
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Chris, face it - you're getting older. This phenomenon started years ago in the video game market, and then exploded with the advent of smartphones. "UX" designers are creating modes of interaction that 'tweens and twentysomethings seem to inherently understand from prior exposure, but anyone older hasn't a clue how to use. The move toward the 'modern' UI, with flat monochrome graphics and little or no guiding text, is symptomatic. A lot of smartphone apps require dexterity that older folks can't achieve, due to small icons and close positioning. I've even seen desktop apps that call for triple-clicks :wtf: to perform certain actions. The end result will be a divide between those that can speak to the machines, and those that cannot. Those that cannot, the aged and the poor, will therefore not be full participants in the society being created.
Software Zen:
delete this;One application I looked at ONLY used mouse clicks on a single element to preform any and all actions. There were over THREE HUNDRED different commands, each activated by a different sequence of clicks, e.g. Double-Click, Triple-Click, Double-Click would activate 'undo'. :wtf: :wtf: The program lasted less than a month before the company that made it (as their first and only product) went bankrupt and had to shut down. The owner and employees of the company were classmates of mine, and I don't think they actually learned anything... :doh:
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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It's not just Walmart, remember that Apple itself has already gone through that after Jobs was fired. The question is, how long will it take this time around? Considering they have a few hundred billions sitting in the bank doing nothing, I suspect a lot longer...
Apple worked (and succeeded) because they concentrated effort on a few select devices and built software (from the OS up) for these select devices. They never worried about backwards compatibility, because they knew that their customers would follow them wherever they went. This allowed them to concentrate on building very useable devices. Sadly, in the post Steve Jobs world, we see them spreading themselves thinner and thinner, becoming more of a fashion brand than a technology brand. As long as people are using their products, and pouring money into the closed garden, Apple will survive; but if they don't do something drastic and surprising I can see them being considerably less significant in 10-15 years.
Er, I can't think of a funny signature right now. How about a good fart to break the silence?
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One application I looked at ONLY used mouse clicks on a single element to preform any and all actions. There were over THREE HUNDRED different commands, each activated by a different sequence of clicks, e.g. Double-Click, Triple-Click, Double-Click would activate 'undo'. :wtf: :wtf: The program lasted less than a month before the company that made it (as their first and only product) went bankrupt and had to shut down. The owner and employees of the company were classmates of mine, and I don't think they actually learned anything... :doh:
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
To quote a tropism, kill it with fire.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
RyanDev wrote:
Perhaps the location makes a difference.
All I can say is that, in the south at least, more often than not they've gone through crap ringers. I've found most of the associates aren't helpful and have very little knowledge of what is going on with the store. I used to work at Walmart as a kid before getting into tech for living, and back in the day Sam Walton was known for going to stores and letting go of unhelpful associates on the spot. Those days are gone. But if your Walmarts are nirvana, cherish them man. Cherish them like the jewels they are.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
and back in the day Sam Walton was known for going to stores and letting go of unhelpful associates on the spot.
I see. I'm originally from California and didn't have Walmart until later in life. It's always been mostly the same for me. Rarely are there helpful associates but that is my expectation so I'm not let down. :-\
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched. They Just Worked. Further, they were fairly obvious in how they worked. But how times have changed. Each iteration of the OS and the associated apps seem to involve more and more hidden UI cues. Jakob Neilson once railed against poorly discoverable UIs and it seems Apple is going deeper and deeper down that path. iTunes on the desktop and on the mobile device are two very different beasts, but they share a multiple personality disorder when it comes to trying to understand how the UI works. Is it a menu at the top? A sidebar? Is it a section heading that's actually a dropdown menu that switches the context in exactly the way (but different!) to the icons in the bottom bar? It's turned into a huge guessing game. I think I'm going to send the Apple UX guys a copy of the book Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability[^]
cheers Chris Maunder
You aren't the only one who has been noticing the degradation in UI. Interesting article discussing the UI designs: How Apple Is Giving Design A Bad Name[^] My experience has been that it's getting more like a point-and-tap adventure game, and less like a productivity tool every release. The flat UI fad is particularly horrible for being able to tell what are active elements.
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Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched. They Just Worked. Further, they were fairly obvious in how they worked. But how times have changed. Each iteration of the OS and the associated apps seem to involve more and more hidden UI cues. Jakob Neilson once railed against poorly discoverable UIs and it seems Apple is going deeper and deeper down that path. iTunes on the desktop and on the mobile device are two very different beasts, but they share a multiple personality disorder when it comes to trying to understand how the UI works. Is it a menu at the top? A sidebar? Is it a section heading that's actually a dropdown menu that switches the context in exactly the way (but different!) to the icons in the bottom bar? It's turned into a huge guessing game. I think I'm going to send the Apple UX guys a copy of the book Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability[^]
cheers Chris Maunder
Why are you sending them an old version? Try this one: Don't Make Me Think, Revisited: A Common Sense Approach to Web (and Mobile) Usability (3rd Edition)[^]
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Note I said "consumer device".
Noted. Please do take note that Personal Computers have replaced the so-called Home Computer.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Maybe I'm sheltered, but from memory every consumer device (including those tiny MP4 players) came with manuals in 10 languages that told you everything except how to most efficiently throw it against the wall when it stopped working.
Even my mechanical alarm-clock with bells has a manual in umpteen different languages. Nearly everything comes with a set of instructions, a
DISCLAIMER IN CAPS, a copyright notice, a trade-mark notice, list of ingredients, whether it is kosher or not and no real instructional value. The last VCR I have seen came with a manual that would make you cry as much as some XML-generated comments generated from source-code. You were talking however about UI-design on consumer-devices, something mostly dictated by the OS. I would say that the Workbench from the Amiga is still superiour, but in terms of killing documentation on consumer-devices, I'd say Windows was a step ahead.Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Ah, how I used to love reading the manuals from the far east in those days of yore. The English was so bad it was comical. I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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You aren't the only one who has been noticing the degradation in UI. Interesting article discussing the UI designs: How Apple Is Giving Design A Bad Name[^] My experience has been that it's getting more like a point-and-tap adventure game, and less like a productivity tool every release. The flat UI fad is particularly horrible for being able to tell what are active elements.
Excellent article. Thank you. I especially liked
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Apple, you used to be the leader. Why are you now so self-absorbed? Worse, why does Google follow all your worst examples?
cheers Chris Maunder
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Why are you sending them an old version? Try this one: Don't Make Me Think, Revisited: A Common Sense Approach to Web (and Mobile) Usability (3rd Edition)[^]
Moshe Katz wrote:
Why are you sending them an old version
/Points at Google and glares
cheers Chris Maunder
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Chris, face it - you're getting older. This phenomenon started years ago in the video game market, and then exploded with the advent of smartphones. "UX" designers are creating modes of interaction that 'tweens and twentysomethings seem to inherently understand from prior exposure, but anyone older hasn't a clue how to use. The move toward the 'modern' UI, with flat monochrome graphics and little or no guiding text, is symptomatic. A lot of smartphone apps require dexterity that older folks can't achieve, due to small icons and close positioning. I've even seen desktop apps that call for triple-clicks :wtf: to perform certain actions. The end result will be a divide between those that can speak to the machines, and those that cannot. Those that cannot, the aged and the poor, will therefore not be full participants in the society being created.
Software Zen:
delete this;I don't think dexterity equates to discoverability. I also think that all those old people (ie over 35's ;)) using new products probably have more patience than the younger generations. We had to fight to understand how to use that old IBM AIX box!
cheers Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
involve more and more hidden UI cues
What like having to move the mouse the the top right/left hand corner of the screen to make some option appear. I don't think it is just Apple!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Microsoft has been suitably skewered for Windows 8, and they did well to back down, admit they messed up, and rework a bunch of their stuff. I give them cred for that.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched
LMAO.
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Indeed. At the time, the iPhone was one of the must dumbed down featureless phones available compared to pretty much every other smart phone that was available at the time. A lot of people seem to forget that.