Letting them die: parents refuse medical help for children in the name of Christ

[GStrad]

9082365 wrote:

The history of medicine begins in that period

Think I know a fair few medical students who might disagree with that statement, what the monastic hospitals did do was start to apply systemic methods (i.e. consistent treatments of the same ailment which could then be assessed and improved)

[Nagy Vilmos]

If I stick my genitals in a wasps nest in the name of Cornelius does that show your approval or my insanity? As previously stated, nowt in the Bible supports this stupidity. Disclosure: I am a Christian.

veni bibi saltavi

[Daniel Pfeffer]

You missed Hippocrates[^], Galen[^], and quite a few other practitioners of the art of medicine. Even Maimonides[^] was famed as a Doctor as well as a Philosopher. While their practices were, in most cases, laughable by modern standards, they were honest practitioners of their art. You should not denigrate or ignore their efforts in the light of later knowledge.

If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill

[Daniel Pfeffer]

I beg to differ. Medieval monastic hospitals mostly followed the precepts of Hippocrates and Galen, who lived over 1,000 years earlier. In the rare cases that any advances were made, they were made against the active opposition of the Clergy. Modern medicine, like all sciences, did not start advancing again until the Renaissance (1400-1700 CE).

If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill

[9082365]

Poorly phrased in hindsight. Perhaps 'modern medicine' would have been a better choice here ... or not. Anyway, you get what I'm saying.

I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!

[9082365]

No slight was intended (see reply above). After all one of the things that makes the stance so questionable in Christianity is that the writer of Luke's Gospel and Acts was a doctor of medicine!

I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!

[ZurdoDev]

GuyThiebaut wrote:

Have just reported them

For what?

GuyThiebaut wrote:

the name gives everything away showing them to be a troll.

A stupid name but not against the rules?

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

[ZurdoDev]

GStrad wrote:

Evidence appears to suggest otherwise,

Actually, if you look, you'll find way more examples where it would appear faith healed someone than cases like the OP posted.

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

[ZurdoDev]

enhzflep wrote:

Seriously, keep your fairy tales to yourself - in my experience, they are not welcomed at Code-Project.

Because the site is full of atheists and agnostics. But if you are allowed to have your atheistic view why are you mad that he is sharing the religious view? Seems very bigoted of you to not allow someone to explain the religious side of the story. :^)

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

[ZurdoDev]

:thumbsup:

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Lost User]

Of course I respect your religious conviction, as long as you don't belong to some radical group or sect that causes you to deny your own children basic medical care when they are mortally ill.

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

[GStrad]

More examples isn't a significant statistic though is it? What are the survival (or maybe full recovery rates) in the two groups - I would put a pretty large sum of money on the fact that modern medicine has a higher success rate than prayer alone. That is the whole point behind why these parents are delinquent.

[ZurdoDev]

GStrad wrote:

That is the whole point behind why these parents are delinquent.

I can't speak for this example, but I can give several specific examples that I lived through where deciding to not listen to modern medicine and instead use "old-fashioned" techniques proved to be the better choice. You only hear about this "news" story because the child is dead/dying (didn't read the whole thing). But parents, religious and not, every single day refuse medical help that never makes the news.

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Alan Burkhart]

Sad, this. I always think back to the case of Madeline Kara Neumann[^]. She died of diabetic ketoacidosis in 2008 while her holy roller parents sat around and prayed. I developed ketoacidosis in 2006 so I know a little about what this child endured before she died. The pain is unbearable. The really tragic part of it is that it's so simple to treat: Insulin and fluids. That's it. I was released from the hospital in less than 48 hours. Left untreated, it's 100% fatal. Religious faith and the ignorance it fosters has no place in the 21st (or any other) century.

Sometimes the true reward for completing a task is not the money, but instead the satisfaction of a job well done. But it's usually the money.

[Richard Deeming]

"Appear" being the important word in the sentence. :)

---

"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

[ZurdoDev]

Richard Deeming wrote:

"Appear" being the important word in the sentence.

Indeed. I was attempting to not de-rail the conversation into a different topic. But I'd love to go there with you, if you dare. :-\

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

[GStrad]

Richard Deeming wrote:

"Appear" being the important word in the sentence. :)

And also why I said it would need statistically valid data to prove it either way :-).

[den2k88]

I'm ok with that... The kid dies and does not propagate the evidently rotten family genes, the parents get jailed and maybe someone learns that no, faith does not substitute medicine. Remember that we are still apes: we learn that the snake is poisonous when we see the ape who didn't know die for the bite. We learn that fire burns when we get burned by it. Want confirmation? look at children - tell them 1000 times doing something hurts and they'll do it anyway until they get hurt. It's too much time that there exist layers and layers of protection that allow the unlearned apes to survive and thrive... in the smug confidence that all the other simians are dumb. I sincerely hope in a high rise of cases like this, also I'd legally force several extremist segments of the population to actually live to what they preach. Either they drop the mask (many people are just egomaniacs which secretly do just as anybody else, except they carry political weight) or they die - so the other apes learn again what's good for their health.

GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++*      Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey If a coffee bean is between the Earth and the Sun, is it a Java Eclipse? -- Sascha Lefèvre /xml>

[Richard Deeming]

den2k88 wrote:

the parents get jailed

Except they don't.

Quote:

... laws exempt dogmatic faith healers from prosecution ... ... those who believe that prayer is the only way to cure illness are exempted from this law ...

---

"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

[Lost User]

When a person is sick and it appears that he was healed by faith, it is simply a case of his or her immune system overcoming the disease, and religious zealots taking the credit for it.

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!