Why any less wild?
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Paul Watson wrote: Well exactly. So why is a Christian in charge of the most powerful country on Earth, yet a man who claims aliens exist is derided for being a nut? Well I guess I can accept part of this question but am lost on the other. Where is it said that a man who believes in alien life is a nut ? Carl Sagan is not considered a nut nor was Issac Asimov or a plethora of others I could name. I think that the UFO buffs are the one tagged with the "nuts" sorbiquet. Paul Watson wrote: The Bible does not exclude alien existance, it does not speak of it Re read Genisis with attention on the order of creation. Paul Watson wrote: and in his judgement we do not need to know about life forms elsewhere SO if and when we find them its now time. How convienient. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: Where is it said that a man who believes in alien life is a nut ? Nut was too strong a word. Rather that many Christians/Muslims/etc. will actively state that they think Mr. Sagan, Honourable Asimov and Sir. Clarke are wrong, a bit dellusional. Certainly talking about other life is far less sociably acceptable than mentioning sunday service. Richard Stringer wrote: Re read Genisis with attention on the order of creation. Care to point me to the part that says "and only Earth was filled with life"? I am no Bible scholar in anyway but isn't it rather ambiquos as to the question of other planets and life? Actually, there are definitley other planets out there, nobody can deny that now. Yet they are not mentioned in Genesis. Richard Stringer wrote: How convienient. It is indeed! Wonderful huh? I think it is fantastic that whoever created these things had such foresight as to provide inbuilt counters to us heathen's questions and attacks. Makes me almost believe ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Richard Stringer wrote: This may lead one to conclude that there cannot be any life elsewhere because it is not mentioned in the Bible or the Koran or whatever religious text you hold near and dear. I guess that would make the enormous assumption that God choose to reveal the whole of life through the Bible, and not just bits that were relevant to us. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: I guess that would make the enormous assumption that God choose to reveal the whole of life through the Bible, and not just bits that were relevant to us. Assuming that God wrote the Bible and it is not a collection of various writings by plain old men. Perhaps a brief venture into the secular history of what we now call the Bible is called for - how it came to be - would be rewarding. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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brianwelsch wrote: the other more humourous. And in jest oft lies much truth. :) * I was pre-fending off the You Read Childrens Books lot who always flock around us Terry Pratchett fans. I am sick of having to add disclaimers when I mention him. :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: pre-fending Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? ;) Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I certainly was not trying to denounce other peoples beliefs or say that mine are the one and only. In fact "my way of thinking" does not exclude God, while "their" way of thinking does exclude aliens/mutilated-cattle/etc. Or at least that is how they have implemented it, even if the original class in no way says aliens do not exist. I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. Shog9 wrote: Who you trust has a lot to do with what you believe... So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... ;) p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... You're smarter than you look & at least as smart as you sound... Paul Watson wrote: p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote Yes, my intolerance of whitespace at the end of my posts is not well liked by IE. Paul Watson wrote: I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. I'd put it down to one or more of the following: 1) They're unwilling to accept the existance of things for which they have no absolute proof, but with a blindspot in the case of God. 2) They're too afraid to admit they don't know. 3) They've accepted some dogma stating as much. 4) They really *really* hated 'ET'. BTW - i personally don't know if there is intelligent life off of this earth. I also don't think i need to know, nor do i particularly care. But it makes for some very good (and very *very* bad) SciFi doesn't it? :)
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
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Paul Watson wrote: pre-fending Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? ;) Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? Yeah, bless his little cotton socks. :rolleyes: brianwelsch wrote: Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. God, so many... umm... Fifth Elephant was hilarious, Thief of Time also. I really cannot say which to read first except start at #1 and read through the series. There are references and un-saids in later books which are filled in by earlier books, so it helps starting at Discworlds birth. I just read them as they come out, fantastic stuff.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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I am just curious here so go sprinkle that holy water on your geraniums; Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? None can be currently proved. All three have thousands of years of stories, myths, legends and records. Yet somehow a God fearing Christian or eastward praying Muslim thinks aliens are a total crock, as fanciful as Santa Claus. Frankly the idea of an all powerful God is wilder to me than the thought of other intelligent life eeking out and existance as we are somewhere in the universe. No super powers, no omniscience, no warp drive, they don't even have to have pointy ears. Just curious :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Paul Watson wrote: So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... You're smarter than you look & at least as smart as you sound... Paul Watson wrote: p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote Yes, my intolerance of whitespace at the end of my posts is not well liked by IE. Paul Watson wrote: I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. I'd put it down to one or more of the following: 1) They're unwilling to accept the existance of things for which they have no absolute proof, but with a blindspot in the case of God. 2) They're too afraid to admit they don't know. 3) They've accepted some dogma stating as much. 4) They really *really* hated 'ET'. BTW - i personally don't know if there is intelligent life off of this earth. I also don't think i need to know, nor do i particularly care. But it makes for some very good (and very *very* bad) SciFi doesn't it? :)
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
Shog9 wrote: nor do i particularly care I care like I care about knowing that Hawking radiation could keep the quest for a unified theory on track... Just for knowings sake I guess. It is not like I care because I want to know how to defend myself from cattle mutilation or the proper etiquette for when I meet a Nyridian Prime being. It is just great to think about (and I am in the process of throwing my toys out of the cot at John Fisher's reply: "It doesn't really matter to me whether there is life on other planets, since I don't know if it's there, where it would be, or how to communicate with them if they exist." That just pisses me off. Arrrgghh!)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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brianwelsch wrote: I guess that would make the enormous assumption that God choose to reveal the whole of life through the Bible, and not just bits that were relevant to us. Assuming that God wrote the Bible and it is not a collection of various writings by plain old men. Perhaps a brief venture into the secular history of what we now call the Bible is called for - how it came to be - would be rewarding. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: history of what we now call the Bible It would be very interesting. I've wondered about it, but never took the time to try and research that aspect. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Paul Watson wrote: pre-fending Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? ;) Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? Small Gods, Feet of Clay, Reaper Man Pick the first of those three you see.
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
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Jason Henderson wrote: I will conceed that there could be aliens if you will conceed that there could be a God? Abso-100%-lutely do I believe that there could be a God or gods. I don't believe there is one, but there could be. I recently changed my mind on that score, realising my hypocrisy. This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Jason Henderson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Shog9 wrote: nor do i particularly care I care like I care about knowing that Hawking radiation could keep the quest for a unified theory on track... Just for knowings sake I guess. It is not like I care because I want to know how to defend myself from cattle mutilation or the proper etiquette for when I meet a Nyridian Prime being. It is just great to think about (and I am in the process of throwing my toys out of the cot at John Fisher's reply: "It doesn't really matter to me whether there is life on other planets, since I don't know if it's there, where it would be, or how to communicate with them if they exist." That just pisses me off. Arrrgghh!)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: It is just great to think about As i said, it can make for some great SciFi. But there are enough things close at hand that i can know, and touch, and feel, and benefit from to keep me busy most of the time. and ET was really, *really* lame, IMHO - i swear, that and "Star Trek" have probably done more to put me off liking "alien" stories than anything else...
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
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Richard Stringer wrote: Where is it said that a man who believes in alien life is a nut ? Nut was too strong a word. Rather that many Christians/Muslims/etc. will actively state that they think Mr. Sagan, Honourable Asimov and Sir. Clarke are wrong, a bit dellusional. Certainly talking about other life is far less sociably acceptable than mentioning sunday service. Richard Stringer wrote: Re read Genisis with attention on the order of creation. Care to point me to the part that says "and only Earth was filled with life"? I am no Bible scholar in anyway but isn't it rather ambiquos as to the question of other planets and life? Actually, there are definitley other planets out there, nobody can deny that now. Yet they are not mentioned in Genesis. Richard Stringer wrote: How convienient. It is indeed! Wonderful huh? I think it is fantastic that whoever created these things had such foresight as to provide inbuilt counters to us heathen's questions and attacks. Makes me almost believe ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Care to point me to the part that says "and only Earth was filled with life"? I am no Bible scholar in anyway but isn't it rather ambiquos as to the question of other planets and life? The First Book of Moses: Called Genesis Chapter 1 ( We will skipa lot of verses for brevity ) 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. No problem understanding this. There was nothing and then God creates something. Earh is created at the same time as the universe was created 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Before the sun was created or the stars there was light 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. So here we have the earth created BEFORE the stars and all the other galatic goodies.See 1:16 and 1:19 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 11:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Note the order and the last verse. Possibly ambigious but the intent of the author was that God created everything and placed life only on the earth. An earth centric viewpoint for sure and none of the creation story hold up under scientific study - no matter haw farfetched the theories get. Paul Watson wrote: think it is fantastic that whoever created these things had such foresight as to provide inbuilt counters to us heathen's questions and attacks Like the Dinos and other extinct animals and the time span for creation and the Order of Creation etc.. The problems with the Moon and the Oort cloud and well lets
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Richard Stringer wrote: history of what we now call the Bible It would be very interesting. I've wondered about it, but never took the time to try and research that aspect. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
http://bible.christiansunite.com/schindex.shtml http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/batbible.html http://www.islamcentral.org/history/history004.htm A few interesting links. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Jason Henderson wrote: I will conceed that there could be aliens if you will conceed that there could be a God? Abso-100%-lutely do I believe that there could be a God or gods. I don't believe there is one, but there could be. I recently changed my mind on that score, realising my hypocrisy. This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Jason Henderson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I don't know that there aren't aliens, and I don't think religion rules them out. I think it would be kinda cool if there were. Its man's interpretation of God's word that rules them out. In other words, men distort God to meet their needs (see Crusades, Islamic terrorism, wishy-washy Christians). Paul Watson wrote: I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. I *know* he exists, but to you he does not because you don't know him. Does this make sense? Let me explain... Here's how I enterpret why some people can believe and others cannot from a totally religious standpoint (ie non-scientific): To accept God, you must first be willing to accept him. When your heart is open to the possibility (when you truely seek the answer), God will make himself known to you (Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.). This may seem ridiculous or impossible for you, but perhaps you should try it; ask God if he exists. But do it sincerely and expect to get an answer. Paul Watson wrote: You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Been there, done that. I used to be very skeptical and accepted that God may not exist, but then I thought about it (a lot), and I pretty much did what I said above. Now, I believe wholeheartedly and the paradox no longer applies. Paul Watson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go. ?
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
http://bible.christiansunite.com/schindex.shtml http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/batbible.html http://www.islamcentral.org/history/history004.htm A few interesting links. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Thanks! BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Jonny Newman wrote: Well we know Dave W adores you. And if that is the only person I can claim to be my friend then I am a rich man indeed :) Jonny Newman wrote: My idea of fun is not spending £100 on a new piece of kit, then spending the next three weeks writing a bloody driver for it Never had to write/hunt for a driver in all my years of using Windows. Actually, I lie. I tried to get a webcam which had "Windows 98 Only" written on it to work on Windows 2000. But that was me asking for it.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
*sniff*, though unlike Jonny seems to think I am not flattered; simply deeply disturbed. ;) :-O
David Wulff
"i said no to noddy like 20 times but in the end i just couldnt say no to him anymore" - Wishful Thinking
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Paul Watson wrote: Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? maybe off-topic, but i don't care: i've read some articles lately that hint that humans have a genetic pre-disposition towards religions and beliefs in powers greater than what we can see. such beliefs allow us to assign blame for events we don't understand, and gives us a target for pleading when we want something. even today, god is assumed to be beyond the laws of physics, logic and mathematics (but as man learns more, god gets blamed for less and less). since every culture (and all the extinct cultures that we've ever discovered, i think) has a religion of some kind, there is almost certainly a genetic root for it. i am of course assuming that all of the world's gods do not actually exist and therefore aren't imprinting the need to worship them on humans at birth. (try to tie this back to the topic.. can i do it?) aliens, on the other hand, are simply life from somewhere else. scientifically, there's no reason for them not to exist. but their existence or non-existence is totally irrelevant until we actually make contact. and since we're not counting them as gods, and if you believe that what i wrote above holds water, then there's no genetic reason for people to believe in them without proof. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: such beliefs allow us to assign blame for events we don't understand I thought that was what Republicans are for. Chris Losinger wrote: imprinting the need to worship them on humans at birth. Ah, Grandparents then... :) "Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Paul Watson wrote: And if that is the only person I can claim to be my friend then I am a rich man indeed *sniff* Thats so sweet. He'd be flattered Paul Watson wrote: Never had to write/hunt for a driver in all my years of using Windows. Me neither :-) God ET bless the commerial software world :-D Paul Watson wrote: Actually, I lie. I tried to get a webcam which had "Windows 98 Only" written on it to work on Windows 2000. But that was me asking for it. To this day, I have NEVER managed to get my SB Live! Sound Card to work 100%. When installed on 2000 or XP with the old drivers. The remote control thingy worked, but none of the software would work. When I updataed the driver and software, the card works, bu the remote control doesn't. These are all Win2K compatible drivers. It really annoys me.
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
Jonny Newman wrote: I have NEVER managed to get my SB Live! Sound Card to work 100%. Same here. Creative makes some dandy products, but they only work at Comdex. "Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Chicken and egg, maybe. They don't trust anyone, so their beliefs are all out of whack, contridictory, unstable, etc.. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: their beliefs are all out of whack, contridictory, unstable Who's word are you taking for that, and why do you trust them?:suss: Are you sure they have your best interests at heart? "Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Paul Watson wrote: This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I don't know that there aren't aliens, and I don't think religion rules them out. I think it would be kinda cool if there were. Its man's interpretation of God's word that rules them out. In other words, men distort God to meet their needs (see Crusades, Islamic terrorism, wishy-washy Christians). Paul Watson wrote: I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. I *know* he exists, but to you he does not because you don't know him. Does this make sense? Let me explain... Here's how I enterpret why some people can believe and others cannot from a totally religious standpoint (ie non-scientific): To accept God, you must first be willing to accept him. When your heart is open to the possibility (when you truely seek the answer), God will make himself known to you (Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.). This may seem ridiculous or impossible for you, but perhaps you should try it; ask God if he exists. But do it sincerely and expect to get an answer. Paul Watson wrote: You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Been there, done that. I used to be very skeptical and accepted that God may not exist, but then I thought about it (a lot), and I pretty much did what I said above. Now, I believe wholeheartedly and the paradox no longer applies. Paul Watson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go. ?
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - GandhiHmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Just Curious Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain