A common language to divide us
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
PeejayAdams wrote:
"Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!)
Yeah, I think we have that one right... If you're referring to just the city/state, it's singular. The team names themselves are usually plural. For instance, "The Mets were my favorite team", or "New York was my fav--" Err, ok, there are two New York teams, so can't just call them "New York"...
PeejayAdams wrote:
I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
PeejayAdams wrote:
"Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!)
Yeah, I think we have that one right... If you're referring to just the city/state, it's singular. The team names themselves are usually plural. For instance, "The Mets were my favorite team", or "New York was my fav--" Err, ok, there are two New York teams, so can't just call them "New York"...
PeejayAdams wrote:
I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
It's used frequently by Ed McBain and I'm sure that I've come across it in a fair few novels by other American writers - wasn't there a Hemmingway story about a "well-lighted room" or something similar? Is it something that used to be common but has fallen out of use?
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
PeejayAdams wrote:
"he lighted a cigarette."
Yes, the strong to weak verb change thats taken place in English.Its just old English the Americans use, so like weaved and wove, dived and dove, perhaps we should just accept lighted and lit side by side each other? :) Another old word is the use of 'gotten', whereas in the UK it only exists as a fossil in a phrase (phrases tend to keep their original words) as in 'ill gotten gains'. When I left the UK many years ago and learnt French and to some extent Dutch, and hence the origin of much of English, I stopped being so pedantic about its usage, and am far more accepting of its foibles and oddities, and even its miss-usage. It realy is such a bastardised language that I dont see why we shouldn't continue to do so! :) --edit-- Correction, its weak to strong change thats happened in general.
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I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service. I believe that in current British English usage that is correct however I believe the reason for its being is that the screen was created by Brits and the service by Europeans.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
chriselst wrote:
I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service.
Not really. You can use "enquiry" in place of "inquiry" (to broaden the scope to include the run-up to the inquiry), but not the other way around. Hah! The US (or should I say U/S?) spell-checker in this browser doesn't even have the word "enquiry"!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
It's used frequently by Ed McBain and I'm sure that I've come across it in a fair few novels by other American writers - wasn't there a Hemmingway story about a "well-lighted room" or something similar? Is it something that used to be common but has fallen out of use?
Could be... I sure don't use it in my novels... At least I don't think I did... If I did, I blame grammar check.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
The company I used to work for had a guideline that said all documents must be written in British English. It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English. The paragraph describing this guideline contained at least 3 words written in US English :omg:
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
There's actually no such thing as "British English". There's English (calling it English English would just be stoopid), Scots English (several variants, few of which are even remotely understandable), Welsh English (has a lot more "baa" sounds), and NI English (sounds fine, if you've downed enough Liffey water). They're all too different to class them under a single dialect.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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As an Englishman, I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version. I often hear younger devs talking about dee-em-zees rather than dee-em-zeds these days and the practice of sticking a zed where an ess should be (organize etc.) seems to be growing.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version.
Never, never, Never, NEVER, NEVER will I use "gotten". We dropped that out of English because it sounds and looks silly, and God knows we English don't stand for sounding and looking silly!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
PeejayAdams wrote:
"Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team"
That's a common referent difference, where both are grammatically correct, i.e: - (That team) is my favourite - (Those eleven players) are my favourite The same works with other collective nouns, like "the government", which can be referred to as 650 individuals ("the government are voting on a bill") or as an institution ("The government is voting in a summit"). At the same time, though, "Villa are my favourite football team" and "Villa is my favorite soccer team" are both just so incredibly wrong, because Villa's cr@p. And how about we use a proper word, for the other issue: "He enlightened my cigarette"? I'm sure the mayor of Springfield would approve.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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PeejayAdams wrote:
I actually find the Dudley accent about the hardest to decipher in Britain
For me, that's Yorkshire. Every time I've been there, they can understand me fine but I have to hold out a handful of change to pay for anything... :sigh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Geordie? [puts hand up]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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PeejayAdams wrote:
"Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team"
That's a common referent difference, where both are grammatically correct, i.e: - (That team) is my favourite - (Those eleven players) are my favourite The same works with other collective nouns, like "the government", which can be referred to as 650 individuals ("the government are voting on a bill") or as an institution ("The government is voting in a summit"). At the same time, though, "Villa are my favourite football team" and "Villa is my favorite soccer team" are both just so incredibly wrong, because Villa's cr@p. And how about we use a proper word, for the other issue: "He enlightened my cigarette"? I'm sure the mayor of Springfield would approve.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
At the same time, though, "Villa are my favourite football team" and "Villa is my favorite soccer team" are both just so incredibly wrong, because Villa's cr@p.
Oi! We're not cr@p, we've just been slightly out of form for a few years.
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The company I used to work for had a guideline that said all documents must be written in British English. It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English. The paragraph describing this guideline contained at least 3 words written in US English :omg:
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
Power Puff Boy wrote:
It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English.
Did it say "It is strongly advised that documents should be written in British English". Anything stronger than that is hyperbole.
KeithBarrow.net[^] - It might not be very good, but at least it is free!
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Power Puff Boy wrote:
It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English.
Did it say "It is strongly advised that documents should be written in British English". Anything stronger than that is hyperbole.
KeithBarrow.net[^] - It might not be very good, but at least it is free!
Keith Barrow wrote:
Anything stronger than that is hyperbole
Is that better or worse than parabole? :rimshot:
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Mark_Wallace wrote:
At the same time, though, "Villa are my favourite football team" and "Villa is my favorite soccer team" are both just so incredibly wrong, because Villa's cr@p.
Oi! We're not cr@p, we've just been slightly out of form for a few years.
PeejayAdams wrote:
Oi! We're not cr@p, we've just been slightly out of form for a few years.
OK, OK, I'll at least admit that your pitch is superb. Mind you, the amount of dung that's spread on it every weekend, that's not surprising.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Power Puff Boy wrote:
It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English.
Did it say "It is strongly advised that documents should be written in British English". Anything stronger than that is hyperbole.
KeithBarrow.net[^] - It might not be very good, but at least it is free!
Sorry, but I can't remember the exact words. One thing I do remember is that some of it was WRITTEN IN CAPITOL LETTERS. When people do that then they're really serious about it, no matter how stupid the guideline.
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
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Keith Barrow wrote:
Anything stronger than that is hyperbole
Is that better or worse than parabole? :rimshot:
Software Zen:
delete this;That really deserves a rimshot.
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
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I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service. I believe that in current British English usage that is correct however I believe the reason for its being is that the screen was created by Brits and the service by Europeans.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Read this loud:
Quote:
English Is Tough Stuff Dearest creature in creation, Study English pronunciation. I will teach you in my verse Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse. I will keep you, Cindy, busy, Make your head with heat grow dizzy. Tear in eye, your dress will tear. So shall I! Oh hear my prayer. Just compare heart, beard, and heard, Dies and diet, lord and word, Sword and sward, retain and Britain. ( Mind the latter, how it's written. ) Now I surely will not plague you With such words as plaque and ague. But be careful how you speak: Say break and steak, but bleak and streak; Cloven, oven, how and low, Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe. Hear me say, devoid of trickery, Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore, Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles, Exiles, similes, and reviles; Scholar, vicar, and cigar, Solar, mica, war and far; One, anemone, Balmoral, Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel; Gertrude, German, wind and mind, Scene, Melpomene, mankind. Billet does not rhyme with ballet, Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet. Blood and flood are not like food, Nor is mould like should and would. Viscous, viscount, load and broad, Toward, to forward, to reward. And your pronunciation's OK When you correctly say croquet, Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve, Friend and fiend, alive and live. Ivy, privy, famous; clamour And enamour rhyme with hammer. River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb, Doll and roll and some and home. Stranger does not rhyme with anger, Neither does devour with clangour. Souls but foul, haunt but aunt, Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant, Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger, And then singer, ginger, linger, Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge, Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age. Query does not rhyme with very, Nor does fury sound like bury. Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth. Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath. Though the differences seem little, We say actual but victual. Refer does not rhyme with deafer. Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer. Mint, pint, senate and sedate; Dull, bull, and George ate late. Scenic, Arabic, Pacific, Science, conscience, scientific. Liberty, library, heave and heaven, Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven. We say hallowed, but allowed, People, leopard, towed, but vowed. Mark the differences, moreover, Between mover, cover, clover; Leeches, breeches, wise, precise, Chalice, but police and lice; Camel, constable, unstable, Principle, disciple,
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PeejayAdams wrote:
I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version
Odd that you fear that, US english is just an older form of English that split off (and stayed fossilised as off shoots tend to) in the 17th century. By the way, Enquire and Ensure were invented in the UK around 1840 ish. If you read Trolope for example you will see him use them the old, and American, way.
Like the English use knives and forks at the same time, but at the time of the split, that technique hadn't come into fashion. [^]
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
At the same time, though, "Villa are my favourite football team" and "Villa is my favorite soccer team" are both just so incredibly wrong, because Villa's cr@p.
Oi! We're not cr@p, we've just been slightly out of form for a few years.
I'm not a football fan, so I can't pass comment, other than to say I was brought up the other side of Aston Park to the Villa ground, and well remember hearing the roar of the crowd every other Saturday - loudest of course when Villa scored a goal. And I can still see Aston Church from where I live now.
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As an Englishman, I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version. I often hear younger devs talking about dee-em-zees rather than dee-em-zeds these days and the practice of sticking a zed where an ess should be (organize etc.) seems to be growing.
We are the Americans. You WILL be assimilated. Resistance is futile. ;P
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I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service. I believe that in current British English usage that is correct however I believe the reason for its being is that the screen was created by Brits and the service by Europeans.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
I run a website called "NJTheater.com", and I'm constantly have the remind those artsy-fartsy actors that it's not NJTHeatre.com, "because this is AMERICA, DAMMIT!"
Truth, James
