#$%#%*^@#"$*^%@$*%%$*@^%*^2$*%@(%!!_71t957t557!%T!~!!!!!!!!!!!
-
HTML and CSS/LESS :mad: Oh, and IE8 :mad: :mad: :mad: Need I say more? :(( :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
Learn HTML: it's like XML, but with some pre-defined elements such as p, ul, ol, li, input, etc. Learn CSS: # for id's, . for classes, all the other selectors you look up if you ever need them. Congrats, you now know the basics. The next step will be to actually use it and find out that everything does not work as you'd expect :sigh: horizontal/vertical-alignment? Never works. width? Only works when the moon and stars are aligned every 1000 years. line-height? Only on uhhh... That one element... You know? margin? Works when the width of the height is the size of the alignment of the parents child's parent width height size. float? For when you really want to mess up everything. I could go on, but there's only one conclusion I can make. HTML/CSS is the worst piece of crap 'technology' that's currently known to men (followed closely by Crystal Reports). It's not about learning it, because the idea is simple. It's about using it a lot, finding out all the quirks and inconsistencies, remembering them, and then knowing how to solve something the next time (but you probably forgot already and need to try out different combinations again). That's the true nature of HTML/CSS :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I feel your pain. I am going through the exact same learning curve myself, right now.:mad: It IS getting better, the more that I work at it. But I will laugh long and hard in the face of any of the fools that complain about VB or C#. HTML, CSS, Java (script or otherwise), RAD tools they are NOT, Consistent they are really NOT. Check out Bootstrap, it has helped me tremendously.
ChickenLegWilly A giraffe is a horse designed by a committee. A camel is a horse designed and developed using Agile...
-
Learn HTML: it's like XML, but with some pre-defined elements such as p, ul, ol, li, input, etc. Learn CSS: # for id's, . for classes, all the other selectors you look up if you ever need them. Congrats, you now know the basics. The next step will be to actually use it and find out that everything does not work as you'd expect :sigh: horizontal/vertical-alignment? Never works. width? Only works when the moon and stars are aligned every 1000 years. line-height? Only on uhhh... That one element... You know? margin? Works when the width of the height is the size of the alignment of the parents child's parent width height size. float? For when you really want to mess up everything. I could go on, but there's only one conclusion I can make. HTML/CSS is the worst piece of crap 'technology' that's currently known to men (followed closely by Crystal Reports). It's not about learning it, because the idea is simple. It's about using it a lot, finding out all the quirks and inconsistencies, remembering them, and then knowing how to solve something the next time (but you probably forgot already and need to try out different combinations again). That's the true nature of HTML/CSS :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I feel your pain. CSS can be trickier than it might seem. For things like horizontal and vertical alignment you need to take into account what containers the styled elements are placed inside of. That will influence what style rule you can use or what style rule combinations you need to use in order to make the alignment work. The sucky part about it for me was that until I was given an explanation, I probably wouldn't have been able to figure out the dependencies by myself or by referencing many of the popular web standards tutorials out on the web.
-
Learn HTML: it's like XML, but with some pre-defined elements such as p, ul, ol, li, input, etc. Learn CSS: # for id's, . for classes, all the other selectors you look up if you ever need them. Congrats, you now know the basics. The next step will be to actually use it and find out that everything does not work as you'd expect :sigh: horizontal/vertical-alignment? Never works. width? Only works when the moon and stars are aligned every 1000 years. line-height? Only on uhhh... That one element... You know? margin? Works when the width of the height is the size of the alignment of the parents child's parent width height size. float? For when you really want to mess up everything. I could go on, but there's only one conclusion I can make. HTML/CSS is the worst piece of crap 'technology' that's currently known to men (followed closely by Crystal Reports). It's not about learning it, because the idea is simple. It's about using it a lot, finding out all the quirks and inconsistencies, remembering them, and then knowing how to solve something the next time (but you probably forgot already and need to try out different combinations again). That's the true nature of HTML/CSS :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I'm so glad I am not alone. Html has 'evolved' for want of a better word, over a number of years. Bits have been tacked on until it has become a horror to use. To my mind css is the icing on the cake. It puts all the formatting into a dark cupboard, or even a number of dark cupboards, that make it hard to follow. I am currently struggling with bootstrap. Yes it works but how the hell do you remember what all the bits do? It's like trying to remember all the Java libraries, yech!!! I wanna go back to desktop development...
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
-
Learn HTML: it's like XML, but with some pre-defined elements such as p, ul, ol, li, input, etc. Learn CSS: # for id's, . for classes, all the other selectors you look up if you ever need them. Congrats, you now know the basics. The next step will be to actually use it and find out that everything does not work as you'd expect :sigh: horizontal/vertical-alignment? Never works. width? Only works when the moon and stars are aligned every 1000 years. line-height? Only on uhhh... That one element... You know? margin? Works when the width of the height is the size of the alignment of the parents child's parent width height size. float? For when you really want to mess up everything. I could go on, but there's only one conclusion I can make. HTML/CSS is the worst piece of crap 'technology' that's currently known to men (followed closely by Crystal Reports). It's not about learning it, because the idea is simple. It's about using it a lot, finding out all the quirks and inconsistencies, remembering them, and then knowing how to solve something the next time (but you probably forgot already and need to try out different combinations again). That's the true nature of HTML/CSS :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
OMG I am not alone. HTML/CSS is a Hackers Dream. You keep hacking away at it until it works in your browser. Then you repeat it for the various other browsers. Then you go on a shooting spree when the first Mobile user hits the page, LOL. I used to design every web page INSIDE of a <table>. I got lots of crap over it. But guess what? I could get things to line up, and I could easily push back and say "Nope, can't do that, how about this?" But HTML Fixed (broke) all of that with DIVs that NEVER seem to align properly. And then doing it with indirection... It reminds me of the Robin Williams Rant on Golf! We write simple HTML. Q: Using HTML No. Using a completely different language, with no understanding of HTML. (Laughing starts) Q: Oh to make it easier No. To make you have to compile it, and then test it, and NEVER quite know what is wrong. Q: But once you are done, you are good NO. Because you have to test every browser... (Stronger Laughter) Q: Then you are good NO. Because you have to check mobile, and iPads Q: Finally good? NOPE. Because the browsers will get updated, and the standards will change and break things. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
-
HTML and CSS/LESS :mad: Oh, and IE8 :mad: :mad: :mad: Need I say more? :(( :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Why not try Sharepoint development - it's all the joy of HTML/CSS/Javascript + ASP.NET with Sharepoint on top. :laugh: :laugh:
-
HTML and CSS/LESS :mad: Oh, and IE8 :mad: :mad: :mad: Need I say more? :(( :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Really glad to see this post. I'm a self learner without a lot of skills. OK, I've been working with HTML/CSS for a while now and when they didn't work as advertized I kept wondering "what am I doing wrong!" Now I understand from the experts where the problems lie: These things simply don't work as advertized. ;)
-
Sander Rossel wrote:
The next step will be to actually use it and find out that everything does not work as you'd expect :sigh: horizontal/vertical-alignment? Never works. width? Only works when the moon and stars are aligned every 1000 years. line-height? Only on uhhh... That one element... You know? margin? Works when the width of the height is the size of the alignment of the parents child's parent width height size. float? For when you really want to mess up everything.
Excuseme, but you forgot the most salient point - if you can get it to work in just one browser, you can guarantee it won't work in any other. I quit web development just before the death of classic ASP, and have been a happy man ever since. I even write in VB.net, rather than go back to web stuff. :-O :laugh:
Chris C-B wrote:
I quit web development just before the death of classic ASP, and have been a happy man ever since. I even write in VB.net, rather than go back to web stuff. :O :laugh:
I've been trying on-and-off for 16 years to get myself into Web development (I've been coding for nearly 40 years) and every time I hit a wall with it. Good thing I'm not doing Web for a living! I know "basically" how it all works and have done some simple web applications (ASP.Net) but I'm always happier (and less prone to headaches) in the "back end" writing rules-engines and dealing with SQL. The Winforms GUI is nice and mature and lets me express the data the way I want it to. I guess I'm just not enough of a masochist to get too deep into the web stuff. I'd rather just write some nice C# (or VB.Net). Nice to see that it isn't just me that goes crazy looking at this web technology which, incidentally, really seems like a hacked together form of "programming". Ugh ...
-
Welcome to the WEB world! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: And ohh, you forgot the JavaScript thing ;P
And PHP :laugh:
-
I'm so glad I am not alone. Html has 'evolved' for want of a better word, over a number of years. Bits have been tacked on until it has become a horror to use. To my mind css is the icing on the cake. It puts all the formatting into a dark cupboard, or even a number of dark cupboards, that make it hard to follow. I am currently struggling with bootstrap. Yes it works but how the hell do you remember what all the bits do? It's like trying to remember all the Java libraries, yech!!! I wanna go back to desktop development...
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
Thanks God I don't do web development for a living.
-
OMG I am not alone. HTML/CSS is a Hackers Dream. You keep hacking away at it until it works in your browser. Then you repeat it for the various other browsers. Then you go on a shooting spree when the first Mobile user hits the page, LOL. I used to design every web page INSIDE of a <table>. I got lots of crap over it. But guess what? I could get things to line up, and I could easily push back and say "Nope, can't do that, how about this?" But HTML Fixed (broke) all of that with DIVs that NEVER seem to align properly. And then doing it with indirection... It reminds me of the Robin Williams Rant on Golf! We write simple HTML. Q: Using HTML No. Using a completely different language, with no understanding of HTML. (Laughing starts) Q: Oh to make it easier No. To make you have to compile it, and then test it, and NEVER quite know what is wrong. Q: But once you are done, you are good NO. Because you have to test every browser... (Stronger Laughter) Q: Then you are good NO. Because you have to check mobile, and iPads Q: Finally good? NOPE. Because the browsers will get updated, and the standards will change and break things. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
That's messed up (literally) :thumbsup: :laugh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
I guess if I stop supporting IE8 my employer will stop supporting my bank account... :sigh:
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
