Your next iPhone could cost more...
-
The US corporate tax rate of 35% is obnoxious. It's no wonder American companies have $2,000,000,000,000 (yep, that's 2 trillion) in off shore accounts.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Agreed.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
-
If it's the no-currency world of Star Trek where everything is in such great abundance that you are no longer living for subsistence and you are free to pursue your dreams, I would be okay with that. I don't think that's the case though.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Which was only brought about because of the Replicator that could produce for you anything you wanted, basically for free.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
-
Quote:
Beyond the obvious targeting of Apple, the most profound and harmful effect of this ruling will be on investment and job creation in Europe. Using the Commission’s theory, every company in Ireland and across Europe is suddenly at risk of being subjected to taxes under laws that never existed.
The questions to be answered are (1) is Ireland a sovereign nation or not? (2) if a contract is made with a sovereign nation, can others decide they don't like it and change it? (3) and finally, who'd be stupid enough to set up business anywhere in the EU if anything can happen at any time.
Are these nations or vassal states? If the later, shouldn't they drop their UN membership in favor of a single one representing the all (like the US) ?"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
All of which is evidence of what I was saying in the other thread about that "slogan": gov't is force. The EU is obviously a gov't big enough to take everything you've got and make-up non-existent retroactive "rules" to so justify its actions.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
-
Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^] Personally I hope foreign companies and foreign governments proceed with a scorched earth reaction. Pull all European investment, shutter all European facilities, fire all European employees (based in Europe and elsewhere) , shut-down services to all European citizens / businesses and fine / tax the f*** out of all European companies operating outside of Europe. Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
If they1 cannot bring Turkey closer to EU, they'll try to bring EU closer to Turkey.
1 - not all Europeans live in EU
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
-
All of which is evidence of what I was saying in the other thread about that "slogan": gov't is force. The EU is obviously a gov't big enough to take everything you've got and make-up non-existent retroactive "rules" to so justify its actions.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
And they complained when Erdogan tried to introduce death penalty in a similar way. Maybe EU and Turkey are made for each other after all.
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
-
harold aptroot wrote:
you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
Ummmm... Griff used the idea of fairness as to why Apple should pay more taxes. Surely you won't begrudge me for throwing it back at him?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
-
You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
If the EU forced Ireland to close whatever loophole or rate deal they have with Apple thus forcing Apple to pay more taxes going forward you wouldn't hear very much complaint (other than from Apple themselves I'm sure). It's the retroactive taxation that stinks of government corruption.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
-
Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
-
Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^] Personally I hope foreign companies and foreign governments proceed with a scorched earth reaction. Pull all European investment, shutter all European facilities, fire all European employees (based in Europe and elsewhere) , shut-down services to all European citizens / businesses and fine / tax the f*** out of all European companies operating outside of Europe. Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
A US Senate subcommittee seems to think that Apple has "used a tax loophole to shift the profits generated [in the US] by that valuable property offshore" The New York Times[^] For my eyes, that would be a problem for US taxpayers as well. You seem drawn to hating Europe, way before this. Better start hating the Senate too.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
-
A US Senate subcommittee seems to think that Apple has "used a tax loophole to shift the profits generated [in the US] by that valuable property offshore" The New York Times[^] For my eyes, that would be a problem for US taxpayers as well. You seem drawn to hating Europe, way before this. Better start hating the Senate too.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
First of all I don't hate Europe or Europeans. I don't care for the EU and I think Europeans were silly for creating it. I believe in time they'll likely come to regret it. It may end up with big changes or dissolution. I fear it will get much worse before it gets better. Secondly, as a rule I dislike much of the US federal government (including our Senate). It's a bloated, bureaucracy that nearly always forgets it's place at home (they should be our servants) and abroad (they need to stay out of other people's business). Lastly, I don't believe for a second that Apple (or any other US corporation) is entirely innocent. They should all follow the laws, rules and regulations in every country they do business in. If they run afoul they should be punished. My problem with this huge tax bill is the retroactive nature of it. Ireland set the rate. Apple paid it. The EU coming along later and demanding more money is wrong.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
-
Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax evasion / avoidance (I'm never clear on the difference) on a massive scale using practices they probably repeat in all territories. Which means that they don't contribute to the societies they depend on to provide the customers: they don't pay for the police, fire, or other emergency services; the legal system that protects their copyrights, that prosecutes those who steal from them; the penal system that jails people that contravene. They don't pay for the armed forces, and financial systems that provide them with a more-or-less stable society to buy their products. Instead, their share of that burden falls on you, me, and everybody else who does pay taxes whether they use Apple products or not. Is that right and fair? Legality be damned - any person or company rich enough seems to make it's own law, and protest like heck when it seems that protection should be removed.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
The whole point here is that Apple colluded with the Irish government to undercut other European countries in a one-off deal that is illegal under European law. It is not legal, hence Apple being liable for an enormous tax bill. Well deserved, I say.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
-
Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate. Apple paid it and became the largest taxpayer in Ireland. Now... years later your lovely EU decides they want more money. How on Earth is that fair? Why would any business want to do business in Europe when they can retroactively change the rules.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate.
Under European law, this is tax collusion, and is illegal. That is why this is tax evasion, rather than avoidance. The rules have not been changed retroactively.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
-
First of all I don't hate Europe or Europeans. I don't care for the EU and I think Europeans were silly for creating it. I believe in time they'll likely come to regret it. It may end up with big changes or dissolution. I fear it will get much worse before it gets better. Secondly, as a rule I dislike much of the US federal government (including our Senate). It's a bloated, bureaucracy that nearly always forgets it's place at home (they should be our servants) and abroad (they need to stay out of other people's business). Lastly, I don't believe for a second that Apple (or any other US corporation) is entirely innocent. They should all follow the laws, rules and regulations in every country they do business in. If they run afoul they should be punished. My problem with this huge tax bill is the retroactive nature of it. Ireland set the rate. Apple paid it. The EU coming along later and demanding more money is wrong.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
As I mentioned above, it's not retroactive. Apple and the Irish government broke the European law initially by colluding to fix a one-off tax rate, giving Apple preferential treatment. That was illegal, so retroactive treatment seems entirely fair.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
-
As I mentioned above, it's not retroactive. Apple and the Irish government broke the European law initially by colluding to fix a one-off tax rate, giving Apple preferential treatment. That was illegal, so retroactive treatment seems entirely fair.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
From what I've seen and read it's not so cut and dried about EU "law". As the years and appeals go by and lawyers get rich maybe it will become more clear. I can say from personal experience and state as fact - European governments routinely give sweet-heart tax deals and other incentives to European corporations. All things considered - this looks like a money grab. Hence my hope for a scorched Earth response.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
-
Because the original agreement was unfair: in 2014 Apple paid £12M taxes in the UK, on profits estimated at £2,000M because it's "head office" where tax was paid (at a rate of 0.005% instead of 36%) was in Ireland thanks to that agreement. Yes, that made it the largest tax payer in Ireland - but that's like being the person paying the most personal income tax in Greece: £20 per annum instead of £19.50! :laugh: And remember: Ireland and Greece were two of the countries that the EU had to bail out because their tax revenues weren't big enough after the crash. If Apple et al had been paying "fair" taxes instead of "legal" taxes the bail outs would have been a lot smaller...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
OriginalGriff wrote:
If Apple et al had been paying "fair" taxes instead of "legal" taxes the bail outs would have been a lot smaller...
I fail to see why's that Apple's fault though, because Ireland agreed on a rate with Apple.
-
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate.
Under European law, this is tax collusion, and is illegal. That is why this is tax evasion, rather than avoidance. The rules have not been changed retroactively.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Under European law, this is tax collusion, and is illegal.
Didn't Ireland (as a country) not know that? When a government entity signs a deal, Apple would not have thought that they're being lured into a trap.
-
Rob Grainger wrote:
Under European law, this is tax collusion, and is illegal.
Didn't Ireland (as a country) not know that? When a government entity signs a deal, Apple would not have thought that they're being lured into a trap.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Apple would not have thought that they're being lured into a trap
I laugh, I cry, the idea that Apple could be lured into a trap especially on tax laws and ruling is mind boggling. They probably spent more on tax lawyers than they paid in tax. Apple, along with most multi nationals are morally repugnant, but how anyone can expect anything else is just silly.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
No one queuing for it in a while
-
The US corporate tax rate of 35% is obnoxious. It's no wonder American companies have $2,000,000,000,000 (yep, that's 2 trillion) in off shore accounts.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
better than paid for US war
