Your next iPhone could cost more...
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Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate. Apple paid it and became the largest taxpayer in Ireland. Now... years later your lovely EU decides they want more money. How on Earth is that fair? Why would any business want to do business in Europe when they can retroactively change the rules.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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If apple paid their taxes over here. Many of the giant US corporations use the bloody EU as a tax haven.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
As long as companies can pit government against government, they win. This works on all levels; local, provincial, and national. Alas, it makes you wonder if somebody is using international corporate taxes as yet another ploy for a single-currency world. Sigh.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
fair
What are you talking about, you're not a kindergartner - you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
harold aptroot wrote:
you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
Ummmm... Griff used the idea of fairness as to why Apple should pay more taxes. Surely you won't begrudge me for throwing it back at him?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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So you'll be OK if the UK tax man comes to your door and says "Sorry Griff but we're charging you back taxes despite the fact that you paid the exact amount owed at the time. We decided it really wasn't "fair"? Right? :laugh:
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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As long as companies can pit government against government, they win. This works on all levels; local, provincial, and national. Alas, it makes you wonder if somebody is using international corporate taxes as yet another ploy for a single-currency world. Sigh.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Foothill wrote:
yet another ploy for a single-currency world.
if only that were the goal. It's a no-currency world their working towards. That's unbelievably scary.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Foothill wrote:
yet another ploy for a single-currency world.
if only that were the goal. It's a no-currency world their working towards. That's unbelievably scary.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
If it's the no-currency world of Star Trek where everything is in such great abundance that you are no longer living for subsistence and you are free to pursue your dreams, I would be okay with that. I don't think that's the case though.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax
Agreed!
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
:thumbsup: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
OriginalGriff wrote:
You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that?
If the IRS thinks a mistake was made or they believe someone fudged numbers they can and will audit you. But they NEVER change the rate retroactively. That would be illegal!
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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The US corporate tax rate of 35% is obnoxious. It's no wonder American companies have $2,000,000,000,000 (yep, that's 2 trillion) in off shore accounts.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Agreed.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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If it's the no-currency world of Star Trek where everything is in such great abundance that you are no longer living for subsistence and you are free to pursue your dreams, I would be okay with that. I don't think that's the case though.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Which was only brought about because of the Replicator that could produce for you anything you wanted, basically for free.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Quote:
Beyond the obvious targeting of Apple, the most profound and harmful effect of this ruling will be on investment and job creation in Europe. Using the Commission’s theory, every company in Ireland and across Europe is suddenly at risk of being subjected to taxes under laws that never existed.
The questions to be answered are (1) is Ireland a sovereign nation or not? (2) if a contract is made with a sovereign nation, can others decide they don't like it and change it? (3) and finally, who'd be stupid enough to set up business anywhere in the EU if anything can happen at any time.
Are these nations or vassal states? If the later, shouldn't they drop their UN membership in favor of a single one representing the all (like the US) ?"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
All of which is evidence of what I was saying in the other thread about that "slogan": gov't is force. The EU is obviously a gov't big enough to take everything you've got and make-up non-existent retroactive "rules" to so justify its actions.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^] Personally I hope foreign companies and foreign governments proceed with a scorched earth reaction. Pull all European investment, shutter all European facilities, fire all European employees (based in Europe and elsewhere) , shut-down services to all European citizens / businesses and fine / tax the f*** out of all European companies operating outside of Europe. Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
If they1 cannot bring Turkey closer to EU, they'll try to bring EU closer to Turkey.
1 - not all Europeans live in EU
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
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All of which is evidence of what I was saying in the other thread about that "slogan": gov't is force. The EU is obviously a gov't big enough to take everything you've got and make-up non-existent retroactive "rules" to so justify its actions.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
And they complained when Erdogan tried to introduce death penalty in a similar way. Maybe EU and Turkey are made for each other after all.
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
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harold aptroot wrote:
you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
Ummmm... Griff used the idea of fairness as to why Apple should pay more taxes. Surely you won't begrudge me for throwing it back at him?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
If the EU forced Ireland to close whatever loophole or rate deal they have with Apple thus forcing Apple to pay more taxes going forward you wouldn't hear very much complaint (other than from Apple themselves I'm sure). It's the retroactive taxation that stinks of government corruption.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^] Personally I hope foreign companies and foreign governments proceed with a scorched earth reaction. Pull all European investment, shutter all European facilities, fire all European employees (based in Europe and elsewhere) , shut-down services to all European citizens / businesses and fine / tax the f*** out of all European companies operating outside of Europe. Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
A US Senate subcommittee seems to think that Apple has "used a tax loophole to shift the profits generated [in the US] by that valuable property offshore" The New York Times[^] For my eyes, that would be a problem for US taxpayers as well. You seem drawn to hating Europe, way before this. Better start hating the Senate too.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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A US Senate subcommittee seems to think that Apple has "used a tax loophole to shift the profits generated [in the US] by that valuable property offshore" The New York Times[^] For my eyes, that would be a problem for US taxpayers as well. You seem drawn to hating Europe, way before this. Better start hating the Senate too.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
First of all I don't hate Europe or Europeans. I don't care for the EU and I think Europeans were silly for creating it. I believe in time they'll likely come to regret it. It may end up with big changes or dissolution. I fear it will get much worse before it gets better. Secondly, as a rule I dislike much of the US federal government (including our Senate). It's a bloated, bureaucracy that nearly always forgets it's place at home (they should be our servants) and abroad (they need to stay out of other people's business). Lastly, I don't believe for a second that Apple (or any other US corporation) is entirely innocent. They should all follow the laws, rules and regulations in every country they do business in. If they run afoul they should be punished. My problem with this huge tax bill is the retroactive nature of it. Ireland set the rate. Apple paid it. The EU coming along later and demanding more money is wrong.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax evasion / avoidance (I'm never clear on the difference) on a massive scale using practices they probably repeat in all territories. Which means that they don't contribute to the societies they depend on to provide the customers: they don't pay for the police, fire, or other emergency services; the legal system that protects their copyrights, that prosecutes those who steal from them; the penal system that jails people that contravene. They don't pay for the armed forces, and financial systems that provide them with a more-or-less stable society to buy their products. Instead, their share of that burden falls on you, me, and everybody else who does pay taxes whether they use Apple products or not. Is that right and fair? Legality be damned - any person or company rich enough seems to make it's own law, and protest like heck when it seems that protection should be removed.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
The whole point here is that Apple colluded with the Irish government to undercut other European countries in a one-off deal that is illegal under European law. It is not legal, hence Apple being liable for an enormous tax bill. Well deserved, I say.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
