Your next iPhone could cost more...
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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No one queuing for it in a while
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The US corporate tax rate of 35% is obnoxious. It's no wonder American companies have $2,000,000,000,000 (yep, that's 2 trillion) in off shore accounts.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
better than paid for US war
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^] Personally I hope foreign companies and foreign governments proceed with a scorched earth reaction. Pull all European investment, shutter all European facilities, fire all European employees (based in Europe and elsewhere) , shut-down services to all European citizens / businesses and fine / tax the f*** out of all European companies operating outside of Europe. Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
I'm with you: Europe confines with Russia so if a transatlantic market closes a Eurasian one opens. Which will break the egemony of US based companies here in Europe, kills the US market outside its own borders and break the current power structures, allowing for a greater social mobility than the one now possible.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate. Apple paid it and became the largest taxpayer in Ireland. Now... years later your lovely EU decides they want more money. How on Earth is that fair? Why would any business want to do business in Europe when they can retroactively change the rules.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^] Personally I hope foreign companies and foreign governments proceed with a scorched earth reaction. Pull all European investment, shutter all European facilities, fire all European employees (based in Europe and elsewhere) , shut-down services to all European citizens / businesses and fine / tax the f*** out of all European companies operating outside of Europe. Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
It seems that Apple intended to pay those taxes *in the US* once the tax rate went below that horrendously unfair 40% that it is now. So by "parking" that money in Ireland, they betrayed the US of A if anybody.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
fair
What are you talking about, you're not a kindergartner - you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
Of course, life is not fair. But that is (or should be) one of the purpose of the governments and institutions (at least those that claim to be democratic and serve the people): to make it more fair, to give a better prospect to those who are dealt a bad hand to start with and to avoid those with power to abuse it (too much). Obviously, they are very regularly failing at that, even in the country where they kind of have that purpose. Apple have obviously (with some help from the Irish System/Governments) abused loopholes and tax laws from different countries to pay a ridiculously low amount of taxes. Making people pay retroactively is always going to cause some kind of moral dilemma. When the "offender" was doing something legal (or not illegal) but obviously immoral (and they knew it), may be we should still make them pay. It is not the same as changing the rate when you have not tried to abuse the system by actively finding loopholes. That "could" encourage more people/companies to act in a more moral way. Or not (looking at human nature).
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If the EU forced Ireland to close whatever loophole or rate deal they have with Apple thus forcing Apple to pay more taxes going forward you wouldn't hear very much complaint (other than from Apple themselves I'm sure). It's the retroactive taxation that stinks of government corruption.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
You completely misunderstand what is going on. The Commission has no say about the tax rate in Ireland. It's not the tax rate itself that is the problem. The problem is that they have decided that Apple has gotten a market-disrupting government subsidy in the form of extremely low tax rates. Or are you in favour of government subsidies for the biggest earning company in the world?
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If the EU forced Ireland to close whatever loophole or rate deal they have with Apple thus forcing Apple to pay more taxes going forward you wouldn't hear very much complaint (other than from Apple themselves I'm sure). It's the retroactive taxation that stinks of government corruption.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
I'm going to the extreme here, because, it's what I do. But if a person went to a country where child prostitution was legal, does that make it any less unethical? Apple made this deal so that it wouldn't have to pay taxes in the United States, where they use the roads and other public benefits without paying their fair share because of this.
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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Wow, what BS. Apple had smart lawyers, they were looking at ways to avoid paying US taxes, and that money should be in the coffers of the US gov't, and those 6000 people should be US employees. :mad: Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
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You completely misunderstand what is going on. The Commission has no say about the tax rate in Ireland. It's not the tax rate itself that is the problem. The problem is that they have decided that Apple has gotten a market-disrupting government subsidy in the form of extremely low tax rates. Or are you in favour of government subsidies for the biggest earning company in the world?
Jeroen_R wrote:
Or are you in favour of government subsidies for the biggest earning company in the world?
Not at all. but when the taxing body (in this case Ireland) sets the rate and the tax payer (in this case Apple) pays it, I don't expect a 3rd party to come in 20+ years later and demand more money. If the EU wants to force Ireland to change the rate going forward that's Ireland's business.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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If the EU forced Ireland to close whatever loophole or rate deal they have with Apple thus forcing Apple to pay more taxes going forward you wouldn't hear very much complaint (other than from Apple themselves I'm sure). It's the retroactive taxation that stinks of government corruption.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
While Ireland is a sovereign nation and in theory 'should' be able to set their own tax rates to incentivize a large business concern like Apple to settle there as they did with the favorable tax status they have. They signed on to a conflicting agreement with the EU in which the have apparently surrendered part or all of that sovereignty, or so it would seem. It sounds to me like if they want to keep their good friend Apple they need to do the same thing that the Brits did and pull out of the EU and tell them to take their tax bill and shove it as Apple represents jobs and gainful employment for a large segment of the Irish population, that could be in jeopardy if Apple is forced to fork over this money. They might better be back in the good Ole USA after Trump is done with things.
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Jeroen_R wrote:
Or are you in favour of government subsidies for the biggest earning company in the world?
Not at all. but when the taxing body (in this case Ireland) sets the rate and the tax payer (in this case Apple) pays it, I don't expect a 3rd party to come in 20+ years later and demand more money. If the EU wants to force Ireland to change the rate going forward that's Ireland's business.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Think about it like this, maybe that'll make more sense: Ireland gave state aid to a private company, and now that it turns out it's illegal state aid, the company has to pay it back. The form in which the state aid was given (in this case tax breaks, but it could just as well be cash or something else) is irrelevant.
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I'm going to the extreme here, because, it's what I do. But if a person went to a country where child prostitution was legal, does that make it any less unethical? Apple made this deal so that it wouldn't have to pay taxes in the United States, where they use the roads and other public benefits without paying their fair share because of this.
Actually, with this decision by the EU, Apple will likely now pay less taxes in the United States due to the tax credit they get for the increased taxes in Europe. This is why you'll find articles (such as this[^]) talking about the US Treasury being angry about this decision.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
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Well this just explained the gun ban! LOL
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Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate. Apple paid it and became the largest taxpayer in Ireland. Now... years later your lovely EU decides they want more money. How on Earth is that fair? Why would any business want to do business in Europe when they can retroactively change the rules.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
That is not what happened. See the linked article in the first post. "Member states cannot give tax benefits to selected companies - this is illegal under EU state aid rules," said Commissioner Margrethe Vestager. Since Ireland is part of the EU, it has to abide by the EU rules.
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Rage wrote:
As for the rest, you are mixing up a lot of things.
Like what? Apple and Ireland agreed on a tax rate. Apple paid it. The EU (not Ireland) wants more money and retroactively changes the rules to get it. What exactly have I mixed up?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
The EU didn't change rules retroactively, the rules Ireland offered to Apple were not legal according to EU rules. Therefore, Apple must pay some extra taxes to Ireland, and Ireland probably will get fined at some point by the EU.
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That is not what happened. See the linked article in the first post. "Member states cannot give tax benefits to selected companies - this is illegal under EU state aid rules," said Commissioner Margrethe Vestager. Since Ireland is part of the EU, it has to abide by the EU rules.
I happen to know for fact that certain member states give "incentives" to European corporations - I've seen it personally. These incentives took the form of free land, cash grants, low interest loans, etc... Illegal?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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"Cook described the Commission's decision as "unprecedented," adding that it will have a "profound and harmful effect" on investment and jobs in Europe" Sure will. Those 14 milliard in taxes will take care of a lot of salaries for a lot of people, and a lot of contracts for all the infrastructure-y stuff that governments do.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
