Next Poll: Universal Windows Dev?
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raddevus wrote:
This would be a good CP poll.
Yes! As a desktop WPF/C# developer (for industrial automation) with absolutely zero interest in apps that could run on the XBox, I would like to see how much actual UWA interest is out there. Am I developing "legacy" applications or am I still one of the cool kids?
This will be the upcoming model for windows phone. So, the point is as said above in another way, it will be impossible to make a phone app with the full dot net framework now that windows 10 almost permanently uses this model for the store (they were talking about normal apps which still exist but are either considered legacy or "specialized" apps). Now, I do not know what the uwp extensions do but I'm sure they add functionality not given. I'll rise a ticket in visual studio or other support for bringing back serialization for uwp.
jeffery
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Has anyone actually attempted to create a UWA (Universal Windows App)? I am in the middle of developing one and there are lots of lessons learned. It's not WinForm Development (of course) and it's not WPF. It's almost WPF but it isn't. Lots of new things you have to learn for simple things like copying to clipboard so that it works on all devices. A couple of the most interesting things I've learned is that it is very difficult to find anything on the web specifically about UWP. There's the official Microsoft stuff and then not much else. Microsoft has large github with samples: Windows-universal-samples/Samples at master · Microsoft/Windows-universal-samples · GitHub[^] But, I've also only found two books that even specifically cover the topic from a C# viewpoint (not including HTML5). Universal Windows Apps with XAML and C# Unleashed Amazon.com: Books[^] And most of the stuff in those books I find comes at it from a XAML standpoint instead of a programming / automation C# standpoint. Anyone else trying to dev real UWA out there? Just curious. This would be a good CP poll.
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
After reading all the folks replying, I feel comforted to know that my initial guess about UWP was at least not terribly wrong... Stick with win32. Until it dies. Hopefully by the time that happens, Android will have device drivers, run on beefy tablets, and, well, not suck for C++ development.
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raddevus wrote:
This would be a good CP poll.
Yes! As a desktop WPF/C# developer (for industrial automation) with absolutely zero interest in apps that could run on the XBox, I would like to see how much actual UWA interest is out there. Am I developing "legacy" applications or am I still one of the cool kids?
Bruce Greene wrote:
Am I developing "legacy" applications
Now that we are seeing what Win10 is doing...I guess any win10 development is "legacy development". :D
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
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After reading all the folks replying, I feel comforted to know that my initial guess about UWP was at least not terribly wrong... Stick with win32. Until it dies. Hopefully by the time that happens, Android will have device drivers, run on beefy tablets, and, well, not suck for C++ development.
Or WinPhone will ascend!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
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Has anyone actually attempted to create a UWA (Universal Windows App)? I am in the middle of developing one and there are lots of lessons learned. It's not WinForm Development (of course) and it's not WPF. It's almost WPF but it isn't. Lots of new things you have to learn for simple things like copying to clipboard so that it works on all devices. A couple of the most interesting things I've learned is that it is very difficult to find anything on the web specifically about UWP. There's the official Microsoft stuff and then not much else. Microsoft has large github with samples: Windows-universal-samples/Samples at master · Microsoft/Windows-universal-samples · GitHub[^] But, I've also only found two books that even specifically cover the topic from a C# viewpoint (not including HTML5). Universal Windows Apps with XAML and C# Unleashed Amazon.com: Books[^] And most of the stuff in those books I find comes at it from a XAML standpoint instead of a programming / automation C# standpoint. Anyone else trying to dev real UWA out there? Just curious. This would be a good CP poll.
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
My answer is sort of yes and sort of no. The application I am creating is intended to be a "real" or professional level quality UWA app, but it is primarily for my own purposes. I will probably put the bulk of it on github when the time is right. I have messed with/customized a number of the starter apps, and been satisfied with my results so far, but I am finding the transition from sample app to fully fulfilling the requirements for a store-worthy app to be REALLY poorly documented. I remember going to a user group at the local Microsoft office early in the Windows 8 era, and hearing pleadings from several people about "it is not that hard", and "you should really do this" but, now, as with then, I reach a particular point, get a number of "bzzzzt, that isn't right" messages, and move on with life because quality explanations for why don't even exist in google searches. "You should ask"? I move on with my life if I have to wait that long for an answer...
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Has anyone actually attempted to create a UWA (Universal Windows App)? I am in the middle of developing one and there are lots of lessons learned. It's not WinForm Development (of course) and it's not WPF. It's almost WPF but it isn't. Lots of new things you have to learn for simple things like copying to clipboard so that it works on all devices. A couple of the most interesting things I've learned is that it is very difficult to find anything on the web specifically about UWP. There's the official Microsoft stuff and then not much else. Microsoft has large github with samples: Windows-universal-samples/Samples at master · Microsoft/Windows-universal-samples · GitHub[^] But, I've also only found two books that even specifically cover the topic from a C# viewpoint (not including HTML5). Universal Windows Apps with XAML and C# Unleashed Amazon.com: Books[^] And most of the stuff in those books I find comes at it from a XAML standpoint instead of a programming / automation C# standpoint. Anyone else trying to dev real UWA out there? Just curious. This would be a good CP poll.
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
The company I work for is doing UWP for some of our warehousing and retail based mobile devices. Currently shipping two 'apps' (from the store's/binary perspective, they have multiple funtions each). So you're not alone in doing UWP dev, just in a very small minority (I think) :) I agree the lack of UWP specific resources is annoying, but much of the older WinRT stuff still applies. Still annoying when you're trying to find the right way to do something *now* and you find WPF/Silverlight/Windows Phone/WinRT stuff that doesn't apply or is old. Since I mostly skipped WPF and my previous (limited) XAML experience has been WPSL/WinRT, I don't find too many differences in the UWP except for the changes in controls etc. The UWP API itself is obviously different to what we've had before, but that's sort of to be expected. The stuff that really grinds my gears is things like the crappy error handling. Years of being taught not to throw or catch System.Exception and now the framework throws it all the time so you have to catch it, then try and figure out what the HResult from the dark ages means. There's a few helper functions for that (one specifically in the Windows.Web namespace somewhere), but they're all disparate functions and you end up with quite a lot of logic and much Googling to produce good error handling. Thank goodness they gave us exception filters in C#. I blame jscript for all of this. I once heard (at Build?) supporting jscript and having language projections is the reason we don't have inheritance in 'Runtime Components'. I suspect it's also the reason for using COM and the poor error handling. So once again, jscript is the reason we can't have nice things.
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The company I work for is doing UWP for some of our warehousing and retail based mobile devices. Currently shipping two 'apps' (from the store's/binary perspective, they have multiple funtions each). So you're not alone in doing UWP dev, just in a very small minority (I think) :) I agree the lack of UWP specific resources is annoying, but much of the older WinRT stuff still applies. Still annoying when you're trying to find the right way to do something *now* and you find WPF/Silverlight/Windows Phone/WinRT stuff that doesn't apply or is old. Since I mostly skipped WPF and my previous (limited) XAML experience has been WPSL/WinRT, I don't find too many differences in the UWP except for the changes in controls etc. The UWP API itself is obviously different to what we've had before, but that's sort of to be expected. The stuff that really grinds my gears is things like the crappy error handling. Years of being taught not to throw or catch System.Exception and now the framework throws it all the time so you have to catch it, then try and figure out what the HResult from the dark ages means. There's a few helper functions for that (one specifically in the Windows.Web namespace somewhere), but they're all disparate functions and you end up with quite a lot of logic and much Googling to produce good error handling. Thank goodness they gave us exception filters in C#. I blame jscript for all of this. I once heard (at Build?) supporting jscript and having language projections is the reason we don't have inheritance in 'Runtime Components'. I suspect it's also the reason for using COM and the poor error handling. So once again, jscript is the reason we can't have nice things.
Yortw wrote:
So once again, jscript is the reason we can't have nice things.
That's funny...and true. Great info on your dev experience. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
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Difficult for me to give up or down. Lots of hoops to jump through. I recently mentioned that I had to update to the very latest VSTudio Community 2015 SP3 to begin dev. Then I was required to update my Win10 to (the very newest of new win10 update -- Win10 Anniversary) Ugh! And then, it left me wondering if after all this work to dev the app if it was only going to run on Win10 Anniversary edition, because of a target platform choice in Studio that seems to give limited choices. Then, after all that there are quite a few differences as I mentioned and very little documentation out there and you get the feeling that you're all alone doing UWP work. Probably are. :sigh:
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
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raddevus wrote:
It's write once, run everywhere dream!
Everywhere? Only if you have Windows 10!!! (If you can go with browser based UI try .NET Core - it is a true COMPILE once run everywhere - including Linux)
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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ClockMeister wrote:
Winforms is much closer to WORA than that!
It does seem to be the case. And it's unfortunate because there are a lot of crusty old controls in the WinForms realm. Many of them are dated back to Win95, few of them ever really got updated.
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
raddevus wrote:
It does seem to be the case. And it's unfortunate because there are a lot of crusty old controls in the WinForms realm. Many of them are dated back to Win95, few of them ever really got updated.
You know, that might be true, however give the following a little bit of thought: What difference does it make if they are "old and crusty" as you put it? Do the controls do the job they were intended to? I.E. do they still work? In many scenarios, the "latest and greatest" technology is really nothing more than "lipstick on a pig", in my opinion, so that someone can sell another version of an item that already does the job. I have a suite of software development tools (VS2008, etc.) that I invested several thousand bucks in. Some "propeller head" developers (who wouldn't think of paying for their own tools, BTW) would consider these tools "obsolete" or "old hat". OK, fine. I can still write very relevant applications with what have turned out to be very stable tools and they run on every O/S Microsoft has produced from Windows XP forward, including every server version they make right on up to Windows 10. If that ain't "write once, run anywhere" it's awful bloody close! :) -ClockMeister
