I can't see all the problems with upgrades
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I knew Win 8 sucked so I didn't upgrade - and I informed myself on the equipment compatible with Win 7 before buying new PCs. I know Win10 sucks hard so I won't upgrade to it - again I'll keep my Win7 until the hardware will be supported. If a version of VS needs Win10 I won't buy it - I don't code at home, and at work the responsibility for my platform isn't mine, nor the management of my time. Until the next one... after all I used WinXP at home up until 2012 and at work until 2016, with negligible problems on either software or games. So... if it sucks it remains there on the shelf.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
One of the things I really hated about windows 8 was that it was designed for a tablet, and they forgot that people with PCs have big screens and maybe multiple screens and do not want the application to take over the whole window. How stupid can those people at Microsoft be. Well tells me something about Ballmer to give us that horror. They also keep moving things, and making it hard for people. I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly. Really just a fancy tool window. Funny I keep seeing menus on web pages. Guess they are more useful than Microsoft thought. Again what can I say about Ballmer. He was also the one in charge when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF.
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Reviews, experience from my peers, system requirements, complains, look&feel. I never ever jump on the upgrades and take my time seeing all the various problems that arise. Games that I play eagerly that don't work on 8 and 8.1, bugs on new games... I speak only for my home PC, at work I don't care the OS they give me. If it hampers my productivity it is not my problem.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
The trouble is all the people who are happy with Windows 10 tend not to make a fuss and write on forums about it. So because a few people complain you assume (wrongly) it sucks. The reality is that Windows 10 is quite stable, and has a much better look and feel than 8/8.1. Windows 7 might have been a more comfortable experience, but 10 does not take a lot of getting used to. There are things I am not keen on but overall it does what I want.
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The trouble is all the people who are happy with Windows 10 tend not to make a fuss and write on forums about it. So because a few people complain you assume (wrongly) it sucks. The reality is that Windows 10 is quite stable, and has a much better look and feel than 8/8.1. Windows 7 might have been a more comfortable experience, but 10 does not take a lot of getting used to. There are things I am not keen on but overall it does what I want.
Compatibility with old SW and old games? Like VisualStudio 6 (stuck to using it) and games prior to 2002? I see many many reports of non functionality under the games review themselves, not considering that I'd have to change machine to have Win10 running fluidly enough. Big no for now.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Compatibility with old SW and old games? Like VisualStudio 6 (stuck to using it) and games prior to 2002? I see many many reports of non functionality under the games review themselves, not considering that I'd have to change machine to have Win10 running fluidly enough. Big no for now.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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One of the things I really hated about windows 8 was that it was designed for a tablet, and they forgot that people with PCs have big screens and maybe multiple screens and do not want the application to take over the whole window. How stupid can those people at Microsoft be. Well tells me something about Ballmer to give us that horror. They also keep moving things, and making it hard for people. I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly. Really just a fancy tool window. Funny I keep seeing menus on web pages. Guess they are more useful than Microsoft thought. Again what can I say about Ballmer. He was also the one in charge when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly
If I was given a chance to rid the world of the Metro Modern Flavor of the Week UI, at the cost of having to bring back the Ribbon menus...I'd say good riddance to Metro. Seriously, it took us how long to go from mono, then CGA, EGA, VGA and get to 32-bit color and 1080p displays to get standardized, and now somebody's decided everything should be huge and monochromatic?
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Clifford Nelson wrote:
I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly
If I was given a chance to rid the world of the Metro Modern Flavor of the Week UI, at the cost of having to bring back the Ribbon menus...I'd say good riddance to Metro. Seriously, it took us how long to go from mono, then CGA, EGA, VGA and get to 32-bit color and 1080p displays to get standardized, and now somebody's decided everything should be huge and monochromatic?
Yes Metro was another stupid decision, and you are right. It looked horrible. I liked that about the time Microsoft came out with Metro, everybody else was going away from it because they finally could.
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Yes Metro was another stupid decision, and you are right. It looked horrible. I liked that about the time Microsoft came out with Metro, everybody else was going away from it because they finally could.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
It looked horrible
Why the past tense? It still does.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
everybody else was going away from it because they finally could.
Are you sure about that? I remember at the time iOS 7 came out, people were complaining that Apple was dumping its long-established gaudy faux-leather/brushed aluminum/everything shiny look they had been using forever and was adopting the "simplified"/flattened look that was just starting to become common back then (roughly Win8's introduction timeframe).
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One of the things I really hated about windows 8 was that it was designed for a tablet, and they forgot that people with PCs have big screens and maybe multiple screens and do not want the application to take over the whole window. How stupid can those people at Microsoft be. Well tells me something about Ballmer to give us that horror. They also keep moving things, and making it hard for people. I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly. Really just a fancy tool window. Funny I keep seeing menus on web pages. Guess they are more useful than Microsoft thought. Again what can I say about Ballmer. He was also the one in charge when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF.
I complete;y agree, except for..
Clifford Nelson wrote:
when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF
WPF is far from dead. it's thriving and will continue to do so.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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You are free to make your own decisions - as are we all. But that does not mean that 10 is bad per se, it just does not match your requirements.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
that does not mean that 10 is bad per se
I never stated that, even if there is a shift of paradigm towards apps and Saas that I really don't like. Also the "all the world is a tablet", no it's not and yes I want my desktop as it was in 7.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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I knew Win 8 sucked so I didn't upgrade - and I informed myself on the equipment compatible with Win 7 before buying new PCs. I know Win10 sucks hard so I won't upgrade to it - again I'll keep my Win7 until the hardware will be supported. If a version of VS needs Win10 I won't buy it - I don't code at home, and at work the responsibility for my platform isn't mine, nor the management of my time. Until the next one... after all I used WinXP at home up until 2012 and at work until 2016, with negligible problems on either software or games. So... if it sucks it remains there on the shelf.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
I really liked Windows 8.1 and still like it more than Windows 10, but the future marches on and so will I. It really isn't bad and to quote my even more [that I] cynical 25-year-old son "people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change." (The Window 10 build from February was a big improvement over the original. The anniversary edition had some issues, but fixed some other things. Subsequent patches have worked well. Video Drivers and Flash generally remain the most destabilizing aspects, though lately it's been the latest release of World of Tanks!)
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I really liked Windows 8.1 and still like it more than Windows 10, but the future marches on and so will I. It really isn't bad and to quote my even more [that I] cynical 25-year-old son "people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change." (The Window 10 build from February was a big improvement over the original. The anniversary edition had some issues, but fixed some other things. Subsequent patches have worked well. Video Drivers and Flash generally remain the most destabilizing aspects, though lately it's been the latest release of World of Tanks!)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change
Exactly! And refusing to change just means we fall behind.
Jeremy Falcon
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I really liked Windows 8.1 and still like it more than Windows 10, but the future marches on and so will I. It really isn't bad and to quote my even more [that I] cynical 25-year-old son "people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change." (The Window 10 build from February was a big improvement over the original. The anniversary edition had some issues, but fixed some other things. Subsequent patches have worked well. Video Drivers and Flash generally remain the most destabilizing aspects, though lately it's been the latest release of World of Tanks!)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
"people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change."
That really is the most ridiculous argument. Some of us have been in this business for over thirty years, and our working lives have been one glorious upgrade after another. We Welcome upgrades! It's been our life to welcome upgrades! That's how we've lived, over the years! What ms has done to the UI and UX over the past few years has not been upgrading; it's been just one completely stupid and pointless change after another. The effluent interface? That's supposed to be more efficient and easier to use than the extant menus and toolbars? Is it bollocks. The baby-block "Start" is supposed to be more usable and intuitive than the Start menu? Is it bollocks. Invisibly clickable words are supposed to be easier to use than straight-forward buttons and highlighted text? Are they bollocks. Full-screen "apps" are supposed to be better than windows? Are they bollocks. Windows without distinctive title bars and borders are supposed to be easier to work with than windows where you can see where one window ends and the next one begins are supposed to make life easier? Do they bollocks. Etc. Instead of fixing the thousands of little things that caused minor problems to their users, they seem to be going out of their way to introduce a sh1tload of major problems on top of the minor problems that are still there. I'd pay a thousand for a windows update that said "Hey, it might not look like we've done much, but we've fixed all the little things that were annoying everyone!" Being an OS that fixed nothing, but just introduced new problems, winio was hugely overpriced at free.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
"people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change."
That really is the most ridiculous argument. Some of us have been in this business for over thirty years, and our working lives have been one glorious upgrade after another. We Welcome upgrades! It's been our life to welcome upgrades! That's how we've lived, over the years! What ms has done to the UI and UX over the past few years has not been upgrading; it's been just one completely stupid and pointless change after another. The effluent interface? That's supposed to be more efficient and easier to use than the extant menus and toolbars? Is it bollocks. The baby-block "Start" is supposed to be more usable and intuitive than the Start menu? Is it bollocks. Invisibly clickable words are supposed to be easier to use than straight-forward buttons and highlighted text? Are they bollocks. Full-screen "apps" are supposed to be better than windows? Are they bollocks. Windows without distinctive title bars and borders are supposed to be easier to work with than windows where you can see where one window ends and the next one begins are supposed to make life easier? Do they bollocks. Etc. Instead of fixing the thousands of little things that caused minor problems to their users, they seem to be going out of their way to introduce a sh1tload of major problems on top of the minor problems that are still there. I'd pay a thousand for a windows update that said "Hey, it might not look like we've done much, but we've fixed all the little things that were annoying everyone!" Being an OS that fixed nothing, but just introduced new problems, winio was hugely overpriced at free.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Your reasons are entirely superficial. The humorous thing is that I heard a very similar list of complaints with Windows 98, XP and Seven. Man did people hate Windows 7 when it first came out.
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Your reasons are entirely superficial. The humorous thing is that I heard a very similar list of complaints with Windows 98, XP and Seven. Man did people hate Windows 7 when it first came out.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Your reasons are entirely superficial.
Are they bollocks. Respond to each point, if that's the case. 0. Tell me how the effluent interface is better than menus and toolbars. 1. Tell me how the baby-blocks "Start" is more usable and intuitive than the Start menu. 2. Tell me how invisibly clickable words are easier to use than straight-forward buttons and highlighted text. 3. Tell me how full-screen "apps" are better than windows. 4. Tell me how windows without distinctive title bars and borders are easier to work with than windows where you can see where one window ends and the next one begins The argument "Oh, you're just being superficial" isn't an argument, it's either troll talk or marketing talk. Either way, you're making yourself look very bad.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
Your reasons are entirely superficial.
Are they bollocks. Respond to each point, if that's the case. 0. Tell me how the effluent interface is better than menus and toolbars. 1. Tell me how the baby-blocks "Start" is more usable and intuitive than the Start menu. 2. Tell me how invisibly clickable words are easier to use than straight-forward buttons and highlighted text. 3. Tell me how full-screen "apps" are better than windows. 4. Tell me how windows without distinctive title bars and borders are easier to work with than windows where you can see where one window ends and the next one begins The argument "Oh, you're just being superficial" isn't an argument, it's either troll talk or marketing talk. Either way, you're making yourself look very bad.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Your points are about entirely subjective things. I resisted Windows 8 because of the start menu and dropping Aero. Then I started using it just before 8.1 was released. To my surprise, I liked the start screen and didn't miss Aero. To the point where I found going back to Windows 7 annoying. I still do. Horror of horrors I've even adjusted to using the ribbon and have even found that on some apps, like Windows Explorer, it's a genuine improvement.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
that does not mean that 10 is bad per se
I never stated that, even if there is a shift of paradigm towards apps and Saas that I really don't like. Also the "all the world is a tablet", no it's not and yes I want my desktop as it was in 7.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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The trouble is all the people who are happy with Windows 10 tend not to make a fuss and write on forums about it. So because a few people complain you assume (wrongly) it sucks. The reality is that Windows 10 is quite stable, and has a much better look and feel than 8/8.1. Windows 7 might have been a more comfortable experience, but 10 does not take a lot of getting used to. There are things I am not keen on but overall it does what I want.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
The reality is that Windows 10 is quite stable
I haven't found that. It hides the some of the application crashes (particularly explorer.exe -- check your logs) better, by putting up screenshots of what was on the screen when it crashed, but the number of "unplanned" reboots is ridiculously high for a modern OS (i.e. often more than once a week). And that's not counting the "I'm updating! Screw you!" reboots. Granted, I only have it on a tablet, but that's what it's designed for ("MOBILE FIRST!") No way would I risk "upgrading" any of my actual computers to it -- even the w8 lappie.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
The reality is that Windows 10 is quite stable
I haven't found that. It hides the some of the application crashes (particularly explorer.exe -- check your logs) better, by putting up screenshots of what was on the screen when it crashed, but the number of "unplanned" reboots is ridiculously high for a modern OS (i.e. often more than once a week). And that's not counting the "I'm updating! Screw you!" reboots. Granted, I only have it on a tablet, but that's what it's designed for ("MOBILE FIRST!") No way would I risk "upgrading" any of my actual computers to it -- even the w8 lappie.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
No, none, not happened. Sorry, but my experience is that Windows 10 is very stable, and does not make arbitrary decisions to reboot while I am in the middle of doing something important*. My version obviously has a major flaw compared to nearly everyone else in this thread; and that is still a very small percentage of Windows 10 users worldwide. *Not that much of what I do could really be described as important anyway.
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No, none, not happened. Sorry, but my experience is that Windows 10 is very stable, and does not make arbitrary decisions to reboot while I am in the middle of doing something important*. My version obviously has a major flaw compared to nearly everyone else in this thread; and that is still a very small percentage of Windows 10 users worldwide. *Not that much of what I do could really be described as important anyway.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
my experience is that Windows 10 is very stable, and does not make arbitrary decisions to reboot while I am in the middle of doing something important
It hasn't done it while I've had it in my hand, but I've many times picked it up after 10 mins to half an hour to find that nothing is running because it's clean booted. I haven't spent any time investigating why, because it's not a "vital" piece of kit -- but I won't risk the same experience on kit that is vital.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Your points are about entirely subjective things. I resisted Windows 8 because of the start menu and dropping Aero. Then I started using it just before 8.1 was released. To my surprise, I liked the start screen and didn't miss Aero. To the point where I found going back to Windows 7 annoying. I still do. Horror of horrors I've even adjusted to using the ribbon and have even found that on some apps, like Windows Explorer, it's a genuine improvement.
Are you suggesting subjective opinions don't count? In my view, whilst W10 gives good performance on (my) old hardware, its UI is horribly unintuitive - for just one example, how do you feel about scroll bars that disappear after a few seconds? Weeks before the launch in 2015, I left comments on the Insider Feedback 'thingy' expressing my amazement that MS had so little time left to fix some of the more egregious features - and they are still with us over a year later.