I can't see all the problems with upgrades
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There's a radical difference between eating a turd sandwich and trying Windows 10. There's a joke in there somewhere.
This space for rent
I'm not convinced that there is a difference... I urgently needed to use my Win10 PC this morning before rushing out the door to the office. I boot up to find that Win10 finally decided to update to the anniversary edition (which I didn't actually want, but it's not like we're given a choice any more). 20 minutes later, Windows finally booted. I received two notifications: 1. Updates were installed (Really? Hadn't noticed...) 2. Do you need help fixing your sound? (Huh? Oh, yay. You broke my sound in the update. Thankfully all it had done was switch the output source.)
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I knew Win 8 sucked so I didn't upgrade - and I informed myself on the equipment compatible with Win 7 before buying new PCs. I know Win10 sucks hard so I won't upgrade to it - again I'll keep my Win7 until the hardware will be supported. If a version of VS needs Win10 I won't buy it - I don't code at home, and at work the responsibility for my platform isn't mine, nor the management of my time. Until the next one... after all I used WinXP at home up until 2012 and at work until 2016, with negligible problems on either software or games. So... if it sucks it remains there on the shelf.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
Pitiful soul. Go ahead and stay with Windows XP for another five years then. Good for ya. I updated all my devices to windows 10 since last year, FYI. And I didn't encounter any of the problem you mentioned.
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Reviews, experience from my peers, system requirements, complains, look&feel. I never ever jump on the upgrades and take my time seeing all the various problems that arise. Games that I play eagerly that don't work on 8 and 8.1, bugs on new games... I speak only for my home PC, at work I don't care the OS they give me. If it hampers my productivity it is not my problem.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
You might want to give win 10 a try. Even win 8. What was so bad about either one of them, other than MS trying to force it down our throats.
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Pitiful soul. Go ahead and stay with Windows XP for another five years then. Good for ya. I updated all my devices to windows 10 since last year, FYI. And I didn't encounter any of the problem you mentioned.
At work we are still forced to keep XP since we have to support machines that costs more than a house for the next years - we also have some Win2k VMs because we sold it on our machines until 2008. And Win7 created a lot of problems in the beginning due to the myriad useless services it has that raise CPU/disk usage periodically and screws up our SW, which has to control hardware AND do heavy weight elaborations in real time. Windows 8 has been tried and dumped due to the ridiculous slowdowns it causes in the execution of the software - they were not there with XP, which we would have kept if not to comply with some BIG customer random IT policy (the machine is for all accounts an embedded piece of hardware so it should not be considered a workstation).
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Um why do you want to 'see' the scroll bar if you are not using it? You know it is still there so what is the problem? My Mrs styles herself Annie O'Luddite. You would probably get on well with her. :laugh:
TheComputerMan wrote:
Um why do you want to 'see' the scroll bar if you are not using it? You know it is still there so what is the problem?
I should not rise to the bait, but in case your question was serious, and you have not experienced what it's like to use (or not use)... A fairly well known way of 'using' the scroll bar is to sit the mouse cursor in the area below the bar, and click to go down by a screenful - then read the page, and click again (with no mouse movement required) when ready for the next screen. Once the scroll bar has disappeared, clicking does nothing, and one has to move the mouse (but not too far, mind) to make it appear again. This is just silly. It seems obvious the screen behaviour was tailored for touch use, with no thought given to mousers. BTW, I might ask: why hide the scroll bar when there is nothing 'behind' it to see?
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Are you suggesting subjective opinions don't count? In my view, whilst W10 gives good performance on (my) old hardware, its UI is horribly unintuitive - for just one example, how do you feel about scroll bars that disappear after a few seconds? Weeks before the launch in 2015, I left comments on the Insider Feedback 'thingy' expressing my amazement that MS had so little time left to fix some of the more egregious features - and they are still with us over a year later.
Are you seriously arguing this? When something is subjective, it means you can't prove it's better. That's all.
mngerhold wrote:
how do you feel about scroll bars that disappear after a few seconds?
I think it's great. Which proves nothing. Or are you suggesting that the only opinion that counts is your own? Seems that's the attitude on this thread.
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I complete;y agree, except for..
Clifford Nelson wrote:
when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF
WPF is far from dead. it's thriving and will continue to do so.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
That is true, but not because of Microsoft. WinForms is also still thriving and will continue to do so. Have not done anything significant updates to either in a long time.
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Clifford Nelson wrote:
It looked horrible
Why the past tense? It still does.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
everybody else was going away from it because they finally could.
Are you sure about that? I remember at the time iOS 7 came out, people were complaining that Apple was dumping its long-established gaudy faux-leather/brushed aluminum/everything shiny look they had been using forever and was adopting the "simplified"/flattened look that was just starting to become common back then (roughly Win8's introduction timeframe).
:-)
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At work we are still forced to keep XP since we have to support machines that costs more than a house for the next years - we also have some Win2k VMs because we sold it on our machines until 2008. And Win7 created a lot of problems in the beginning due to the myriad useless services it has that raise CPU/disk usage periodically and screws up our SW, which has to control hardware AND do heavy weight elaborations in real time. Windows 8 has been tried and dumped due to the ridiculous slowdowns it causes in the execution of the software - they were not there with XP, which we would have kept if not to comply with some BIG customer random IT policy (the machine is for all accounts an embedded piece of hardware so it should not be considered a workstation).
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
Services can be turned off at will though... In all Windows version.
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I only have one machine. Losing days to backup, try, fix, try, fix, fraking up, restoring just to try something new? Not a chance in hell, nor in heaven for that sake.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
Actually, upgrades to operating systems don't have to be the pain that you assume they are. Since you are running Windows 7, I would get virtualization software (I use VMWare Workstation), and create a virtual Windows 8 machine. And then you'll realize immediately why Microsoft went to 8.1 almost immediately. And then you can try Windows 10. I like 8.1, and dislike Windows 10 after running it on a virtual machine for 4 months. Therefore, I shutdown 10, and never use it except once in awhile to pick up the updates. Virtual is the way to go - you can get comfortable with a new operating system, without mucking around with your main OS, and if you like the update, you can do one of two things - install the new OS on over your main OS, or continue using your main OS just to bring up a virtual machine of your new OS.
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den2k88 wrote:
Reviews, experience from my peers, system requirements, complains, look&feel.
That's what I've heard too. Most folks, especially the anti-Windows folks tell the same story. I know there are imperfections and I haven't upgraded to Win 10 yet because of it, or because of what I've heard from others. I'm just too busy to do the update. :rolleyes: Today, I'm about to update it to Win 10 because I need to test out the docker support for .net core. So fingers cross. :-D
Vincent Maverick Durano wrote:
Most folks, especially the anti-Windows folks tell the same story.
Couldn't care less about the anti Windwos folks. They aren't the ones who did upgrade before the free upgrade presumably ran out and posted about the resulting issues. Those who did upgrade early are not the anti Windows folks, or else they wouldn't have run Windows before the upgrade. I ran Windows 8 (home) on my laptop for more than a year and hated it. And I'm not even talking about the UI (I did install ClassicShell). I'm talking about missing baseline apps, forced upgrades at inopportune moments (e. g. at 5% battery power without a power outlet in reach), repeated resets of system settings to M$ defaults, and an entirely messed up configuration system that made restoring the settings to my preferences a pita. I never upgraded to 8.1 because it fixed none of the issues I had, but introduced even more telemetry spying than 8.0 already had, with less control. It added back a few of the utilities 8.0 removed, but instead of just adding back the old programs, they came back as apps with considerably reduced functionality. I had a look at W10, but the forced updates are a killer for me, based on my own past experience with forced updates in 8.0. The settings and configurations are better than in W 8, but still too much spread out, and therefore considerably worse than they are in W 7. I do hate the parts of the system that use the flat design, and sometimes you just can't avoid it: flat means it's harder to distinguish which widget has the focus, and which parts of the UI are in fact actionable elements. I have no idea why anyone would think this is a good design: it definitely decreases discoverability! E. g. when there's a list of items at the left side of the window, I have no way to tell what clicking on ony of them will do, if at all. Depending on the context, it may do nothing, invoke some function, or switch the window to a different tab or sub menu. I'ts all trial and error. And let's not talk about telemetry and other data being sent back to MS: not only is it impossible to switch it all off (MS confirmed as much), the settings that do reduce the data stream are spread out all over the system (like so many other things that you'd think should be treated on a single settings page). Just to be clear: I don't mind so much that Microsoft can take a look at this information, not even that any US-based three letter org may force them to hand