Making a living as a Programmer? Freelance?
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
I didn't know you were gonna ask this question but an hour ago I posted a status on Facebook,
If you want to be a programmer, just because the pay rates are high, my recommendation for you: Stay away! #programming #tip #careeradvice
Frankly speaking, there are rare chances for you to get a "good" job in computer science, or IT department. My own views are that you get a good job if you have a Microsoft (or any other similar giant's) certification. Most of the employees look for that. So, since you are beginners, let me walk you through the Eden of programming!
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some resources on Mac and Windows programming.
Learn either one of them. Either do Mac programming or do Windows programming. Do not entangle yourself in both of them at the moment, one of them uses Swift or Objective-C language and other uses quite multiple languages, .NET framework and some web technologies.
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Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Yes, but your table will always be a mess. Your hardware or laptop components, sensors, keyboard etc. will always be left over and your wife (if there is) will always be mad at you! I don't have a wife.
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Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible?
Do not do this. Freelancers don't get the respect that they deserve. Most of the times, they are asked to do a project of $1000 worth in under $100 with 5-10 modifications later. Even if they say something, they get a bad voting by the recruiter. That is one of the reasons I left the freelancing world! Build your own applications, sell them, monetize them using advertisements or sell in-app purchases such as premium options and features. You will get a good earning from there. Otherwise, get an on-premises job.
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Will I have job security?
In most of the freelancing projects, there is very less security of the payments. On the premises and in the offices, you get full payments for your monthly job. Your job is safe and you work in a group, where you get to eat and talk in a group. For a
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CableX1 wrote:
Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Possibly yes, possibly no; there are no guarantees in this world, and it often depends on you being in the right place, with the right skill at the right time. Look around the sort of jobs that are on offer locally to get an idea of where the need is.
CableX1 wrote:
Will I have job security?
Maybe, maybe not. Agian it varies.
CableX1 wrote:
Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Again it varies and depends on where and what the demand is. I have worked for various companies and as a freelancer. I have seen people made redundant (including myself), and had periods where we thought the company might fold at any minute. The best way to go is to find a career that interests you and follow that. The rewards may or may not come to you, as with everything else in life.
Should've said, read more about Schrödinger's cat[^]. :laugh:
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
Yes, you can make a good living as a programmer/developer/coder software engineer. But in order to do that, you need to know how to build correctly functioning, performant, secure, extensible, scaleable and maintainable software. And that comes from writing code. Lots and lots of code. And making mistakes. And learning from other developers. It's a great ride - keep at it, and I think you'll enjoy it! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Should've said, read more about Schrödinger's cat[^]. :laugh:
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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Absolutely no idea. Yes, it is possible to make a comfortable living - even a good one - as a developer it depends on too many factors to be able to say "go for it!". Do you have any aptitude for it? Any ability? Or are you just going to find that it is actually hard work and get bored? I dunno, and I suspect neither do you. Not everybody that wants to can do it the job: it takes a "mind set" than many just don't have - for proof go look at the sewer that is QA and see how many people are having problems with basic stuff despite apparently having a job in the industry. So assume you might be capable and invest your time, effort and a little bit of money in training: a good book1 or better a course to see if you can do it. Pick a language (C# is a good start) and start learning it properly. See if it fits you, and you fit it! 1: Addison-Wesley do good ones, as do Wrox, and Microsoft Press - avoid anything with multiple exclamation marks, "in XXX days", or "for dummies" in the title.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
OriginalGriff wrote:
or "for dummies" in the title.
I disagree. OP just wants to get exposed to various languages and possibilities. I think the Dummies books are exactly what the OP should go for. Simple, not too in depth, but enough for OP to find out if they may want to continue in it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
The danger here is you're asking a bunch of hardcore tech-heads for their warped opinions! Personally, I think that if you couldn't program in assembly language before blowing the candles out on your 10th birthday cake then you must wholly inadequate as a programmer. The reality though is that most people with IT jobs aren't that into it and get by just fine. If someone is going to pay you, it won't be for the elegance of your code. It'll generally be for producing something which is *just* good enough but does what they want. In finance (my domain), you can earn an absolute fortune writing little twiddly Excel VBA macros with a bit of business knowledge because finance loves Excel. Hacky or not, no-one cares. I don't do that though, because I hate Excel. Freelancing is very doable, as you are super-expendable as opposed to a permanent employee who you have to make redundant + make all sorts of other sacrifices and who might scream cries of 'unfair dismissal' when you try and boot them out. Outsourcing happens a lot, but they usually reverse it after a few years having realized what a bloody awful idea it was in the first place. As someone else said, in this mean world there is little job security or loyalty any more, but no more so in IT than any other industry. I say go for it, but for the love of God, don't do Java... :)
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
Yes you can, but be prepared to start at the bottom, and suck up as much knowledge from those around you. In my experience, don't other with certifications, experience is way more valuable. If you are good/lucky you can work your way up the chain pretty quickly. To do this, be prepared to move fairly often [maybe every 2 years] to keep yourself motivated and to learn different skills/industries. If you're prepared to move often, job security is probably less relevant.
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The danger here is you're asking a bunch of hardcore tech-heads for their warped opinions! Personally, I think that if you couldn't program in assembly language before blowing the candles out on your 10th birthday cake then you must wholly inadequate as a programmer. The reality though is that most people with IT jobs aren't that into it and get by just fine. If someone is going to pay you, it won't be for the elegance of your code. It'll generally be for producing something which is *just* good enough but does what they want. In finance (my domain), you can earn an absolute fortune writing little twiddly Excel VBA macros with a bit of business knowledge because finance loves Excel. Hacky or not, no-one cares. I don't do that though, because I hate Excel. Freelancing is very doable, as you are super-expendable as opposed to a permanent employee who you have to make redundant + make all sorts of other sacrifices and who might scream cries of 'unfair dismissal' when you try and boot them out. Outsourcing happens a lot, but they usually reverse it after a few years having realized what a bloody awful idea it was in the first place. As someone else said, in this mean world there is little job security or loyalty any more, but no more so in IT than any other industry. I say go for it, but for the love of God, don't do Java... :)
Regards, Rob Philpott.
Rob Philpott wrote:
The danger here is you're asking a bunch of hardcore tech-heads for their warped opinions! Personally, I think that if you couldn't program in assembly language before blowing the candles out on your 10th birthday cake then you must wholly inadequate as a programmer
You've pretty much proven your first point with what immediately followed it. What curriculum even teaches the kids assembly nowadays?
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
How are your "marketing" abilities? You can be the "greatest" programmer (whatever) ... but if you can't "sell" yourself (or have someone do it for you), you won't get anywhere. So, besides (some) skill in programming, you need: confidence; good spelling / grammar; able to craft a custom cover letter; bid, estimate and schedule intelligently; etc. You "job security" (LOL) is dependent on how well you master the above (and then some).
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
CableX1 wrote:
Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Depends heavily on your locale.
CableX1 wrote:
Will I have job security?
Once you become good, you can stop caring about that. There's enough jobs out there that need to be done.
CableX1 wrote:
either at a 9-5 kind of job
You mean an employee; most companies expect you to 'not have a 9-5 mentality'. In which case your first question should be whether that also counts for the pay.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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Should've said, read more about Schrödinger's cat[^]. :laugh:
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
Thanks for all the responses, everyone...they are much appreciated! Programming has been in an out of my life in various ways. Took a BASIC class in high school a LONG time ago, tried making websites a little back when the internet was relatively brand new and that's about it. I like the creative aspect of it the most. You are making something in the end...I find that a bit more appealing than managing servers, switches and applying Windows Updates, hoping they don't blow anything up. Freelancing would be something far in the future, if I would even want to go in that direction. I've realized that all along, but naturally would like to hear current experiences. The road sounds exactly as I imagined....learn, learn, learn, code, code, code...get the experience and that will lead the way from there. I have started out with the Dummies books. I know that eyes will roll and I get it, but I found it was the best way to get my feet wet. I have other books that are way more technical, so really, the Dummies books are just the shallow end of the pool for me...the ankle deep pool, that is. I'm thinking of going more the Windows route, but am considering the mobile route too. The Mac one would be more for fun. Some of the interesting things I've heard from various people: "You can find a lot of work doing javascript." "My friend took a mobile app series of classes and is now doing that, making tons of money!" I take everything I hear with a grain of salt and as a side note, I'm not about making a ton of money. Would be nice, but I have a family to support, so that's where my head is at. I'm not going into this with $$$ in my eyes and insane expectations. Please, continue with any comments or experiences. The more information, the better.
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I was a drummer in a rock band at my university called "Schrödinger's cat". Guess how many Physics Majors were in that band!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
None. :laugh:
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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None. :laugh:
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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Thanks for all the responses, everyone...they are much appreciated! Programming has been in an out of my life in various ways. Took a BASIC class in high school a LONG time ago, tried making websites a little back when the internet was relatively brand new and that's about it. I like the creative aspect of it the most. You are making something in the end...I find that a bit more appealing than managing servers, switches and applying Windows Updates, hoping they don't blow anything up. Freelancing would be something far in the future, if I would even want to go in that direction. I've realized that all along, but naturally would like to hear current experiences. The road sounds exactly as I imagined....learn, learn, learn, code, code, code...get the experience and that will lead the way from there. I have started out with the Dummies books. I know that eyes will roll and I get it, but I found it was the best way to get my feet wet. I have other books that are way more technical, so really, the Dummies books are just the shallow end of the pool for me...the ankle deep pool, that is. I'm thinking of going more the Windows route, but am considering the mobile route too. The Mac one would be more for fun. Some of the interesting things I've heard from various people: "You can find a lot of work doing javascript." "My friend took a mobile app series of classes and is now doing that, making tons of money!" I take everything I hear with a grain of salt and as a side note, I'm not about making a ton of money. Would be nice, but I have a family to support, so that's where my head is at. I'm not going into this with $$$ in my eyes and insane expectations. Please, continue with any comments or experiences. The more information, the better.
IMHO, the key to success is experience. The field is way too large for most devs to have both wide and deep knowledge. (I know I don't.) I started out by writing desktop applications (I enjoy working with rich UIs) and have built Windows apps for about 20 years, and server-side code (also Windows) for about a decade, and now work on server-side code and mobile (specifically Android) UIs. My language of choice is C# (Xamarin allows me to build Android apps in C#). Choosing Windows (vs. the Mac) was a decision I made in the early 90s (I found the Petzold book easier to read than the Mac doc set) and have since been comfortably nestled in that technology. My knowledge of web front ends and things NodeJS or Pythonesque is less than zero, but that's OK. I love what I do and am happy there's a market for it. I've never selected a technology because it pays well. Instead, I look for opportunities that allow me to grow my knowledge. I hope my aimless writing provides food for thought. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I was a drummer in a rock band at my university called "Schrödinger's cat". Guess how many Physics Majors were in that band!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Hi everyone! I'm new here and to programming/coding in general. I'm currently an IT systems/network admin and I'm growing a bit tired of the work. I still want to work with computers, but am not sure which way to go. I've been going through all kinds of beginner books....html, some resources on Mac and Windows programming. Just trying to get my bearings and figure out which way to do with it, but the honest question is: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder? Will I have job security? Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible? I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc. Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer? I appreciate any insight and guidance.
I'm a freelancer, but work is scarce. I don't use the freelancer sites, as way too many projects there for for mobile, and I only did my first Android app last week, and they're a little too impersonal; people don't look at your profile, only your record on the site and rep points. I have now started an intense campaign to convince small and home businesses of the need to be online, and online properly, not just a Facebook page, and definitely not a *@gamil.com address.
Follow my adventures with .NET Core at my new blog, Erisia Information Services.
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CableX1 wrote:
Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Certainly. You can even make a decent living as a not so decent programmer/developer/coder. I see it all the time.
CableX1 wrote:
Will I have job security?
Whether you're a decent programmer or not, job security depends mostly on whatever mental illness the management has. And they almost all do, and it all affects the decision making. The real question is, will you have "career" security. Sure. I'd suggest finding companies that are writing the code that can then write the code the rest of us are writing. ;)
CableX1 wrote:
Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible?
As a beginner programmer, no, not feasible (except for, well, that's another story.) To be a freelance programmer, you need experience, an established client base and most importantly, an established network of friends, coworkers, recruiters, and clients that will recommend you to others.
CableX1 wrote:
I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc.
That'll never go away. The better your skills are, the less you have to worry about that. And by skills, I mostly mean being able to speak the language of the client's/employer's country clearly. :)
CableX1 wrote:
Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer?
Sure. 9-5: Cons: Ridiculous meetings, lots of interruptions, commuting, cubicles, pigeon holing, office politics Pros: Peers, camaraderie, social contact Freelancing: Cons: Often solo, income great one week, 0 the next, more difficult to find contract work, often cleaning up someone else's mess, possible longer commutes Pros: Often solo, income can be great, work is usually more challenging and interesting, contact is more often with the real decision makers, less office politics, much fewer meetings, sometimes remote My 2c. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning
Marc Clifton wrote:
CableX1 wrote:
Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer?
Sure. 9-5: Cons: Ridiculous meetings, lots of interruptions, commuting, cubicles, pigeon holing, office politics Pros: Peers, camaraderie, social contact Freelancing: Cons: Often solo, income great one week, 0 the next, more difficult to find contract work, often cleaning up someone else's mess, possible longer commutes Pros: Often solo, income can be great, work is usually more challenging and interesting, contact is more often with the real decision makers, less office politics, much fewer meetings, sometimes remote
Methinks you forgot to mention: 9 - 5: You work 9 - 5, then get to go home and not work, and even after a bad day by 7pm you're doing your own thing because nothing matters till 09:00 the next day. Freelancing: Sometimes you work 09:00 - 05:00 (yes, 20 hours straight), notice the sun coming up, shower, sleep for a few hours, and then at 09:00 repeat the same again (without even realizing 2 - 4 weekends have come and gone), and sometimes you work 11:00 - 11:23 and then go surfing for 3 days ... In either case above: your mind will will be on it 24/7 - and sometimes that will only start to fade up to a month after the project ends. But then you will know you are a freelancer. (... and being able to switch off at 5PM [and not give a s***] will be the life you dream of.)
Sin tack ear lol Pressing the "Any" key may be continuate
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Of course you can make a living from being a programmer, how good a living depends on how good a programmer and what kind of industry you get into. I'd tread careful about being a freelancer, as I think you're pretty ripe for getting scammed. Looking at job postings on freelancer sites they're usually worded such that you know they're planning on ripping you off. You'd be better getting a normal 9-5 I think, then look at moving on to contract work if the freelancer thing appeals to you.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Looking at job postings on freelancer sites they're usually worded such that you know they're planning on ripping you off.
How so, and which sites? I havent seen any job ads that made me suspicious, but I am in Europe.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
CableX1 wrote:
Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer?
Sure. 9-5: Cons: Ridiculous meetings, lots of interruptions, commuting, cubicles, pigeon holing, office politics Pros: Peers, camaraderie, social contact Freelancing: Cons: Often solo, income great one week, 0 the next, more difficult to find contract work, often cleaning up someone else's mess, possible longer commutes Pros: Often solo, income can be great, work is usually more challenging and interesting, contact is more often with the real decision makers, less office politics, much fewer meetings, sometimes remote
Methinks you forgot to mention: 9 - 5: You work 9 - 5, then get to go home and not work, and even after a bad day by 7pm you're doing your own thing because nothing matters till 09:00 the next day. Freelancing: Sometimes you work 09:00 - 05:00 (yes, 20 hours straight), notice the sun coming up, shower, sleep for a few hours, and then at 09:00 repeat the same again (without even realizing 2 - 4 weekends have come and gone), and sometimes you work 11:00 - 11:23 and then go surfing for 3 days ... In either case above: your mind will will be on it 24/7 - and sometimes that will only start to fade up to a month after the project ends. But then you will know you are a freelancer. (... and being able to switch off at 5PM [and not give a s***] will be the life you dream of.)
Sin tack ear lol Pressing the "Any" key may be continuate
Robert den Hartog wrote:
In either case above: your mind will will be on it 24/7 - and sometimes that will only start to fade up to a month after the project ends. But then you will know you are a freelancer.
Good point and exactly my experience. Which I actually really don't mind, because even as a 9-5 employee, I experienced that.
Robert den Hartog wrote:
(... and being able to switch off at 5PM [and not give a s***] will be the life you dream of.)
Nope, not built that way. I suppose I could discipline my mind to do that, but it's not my natural state. ;) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
