What to start learning?
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So I am in my mid thirties and a COO of a small business. Way back when in High School I took some programming classes and loved it. VB6. Fast forward to college and started in computer science before I hated a few professors in a row and switched to business school. So In ever followed through on what was my intent at that point of being a programmer / developer. Now, I see a real need for my business for a centralized application that can handle a multitude of things. Basically, we are a very unique company and not out of the box software fits all of our needs. I am realistic and I know I am not going to create an end all software application for my company. I totally get that. This is a side hobby for me (and I have kids too so we'll see how much time I have). BUt I have always loved problem solving, computers, and the thought of programming really intrigues me. Since I knew VB6 (based on high school classes, far from an expert) I am inclined to think VB.net is the best place to start and learn. But for me to learn through a project, if you are recommending to a newbie who wants to dabble with one application and never do this for a living... What would you recommend to them studying, learning, and playing with? It would need to be a database application too so that factors in. Web or desktop I dont know. I am inclined to think web takes so much of the complication out of connectivity and end user experience. But is it powerful enough to really do thinks. Here would be my start: Right now we take meeting minutes manually in a word based template. This software would have data entry for the minutes, keep it organized, and automatically distribute to all participants after the meeting. First feature. Second feature is a shop drawing log and submittal tracker. So when we make something custom, we prepare a detail drawing. Send it to an architect for approval. When it is approved sned to the manufacturer to release into production. Track all of these submissions etc. That would be number two. I would start with those two small features and continue slowly to add one at a time. Just a slow release of new functionality as our team realizes they need something. Recommendations?
Member 13044355 wrote:
very unique
:sigh:
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So I am in my mid thirties and a COO of a small business. Way back when in High School I took some programming classes and loved it. VB6. Fast forward to college and started in computer science before I hated a few professors in a row and switched to business school. So In ever followed through on what was my intent at that point of being a programmer / developer. Now, I see a real need for my business for a centralized application that can handle a multitude of things. Basically, we are a very unique company and not out of the box software fits all of our needs. I am realistic and I know I am not going to create an end all software application for my company. I totally get that. This is a side hobby for me (and I have kids too so we'll see how much time I have). BUt I have always loved problem solving, computers, and the thought of programming really intrigues me. Since I knew VB6 (based on high school classes, far from an expert) I am inclined to think VB.net is the best place to start and learn. But for me to learn through a project, if you are recommending to a newbie who wants to dabble with one application and never do this for a living... What would you recommend to them studying, learning, and playing with? It would need to be a database application too so that factors in. Web or desktop I dont know. I am inclined to think web takes so much of the complication out of connectivity and end user experience. But is it powerful enough to really do thinks. Here would be my start: Right now we take meeting minutes manually in a word based template. This software would have data entry for the minutes, keep it organized, and automatically distribute to all participants after the meeting. First feature. Second feature is a shop drawing log and submittal tracker. So when we make something custom, we prepare a detail drawing. Send it to an architect for approval. When it is approved sned to the manufacturer to release into production. Track all of these submissions etc. That would be number two. I would start with those two small features and continue slowly to add one at a time. Just a slow release of new functionality as our team realizes they need something. Recommendations?
As others have intimated, study your data and get that correct first, then hire a professional to do the job. I would recommend that you pick a smaller hobby project, or even an obscure but small part of the overall project to do your learning on. Use your growing knowledge to learn from and oversee the professional. As the COO of the company you should have neither the time nor experience to do this job, it will never come to fruition and you will have wasted your time to no benefit to the company. If you have identified a need for an integrated system then budget it and move forward, don't piss about trying to fiddle it yourself.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I did not mean to advertise. Many years ago I grew out of MySql and ended up with Postgres, Since then I have written a lot of code that uses the database and have not hit any restrictions. It supposedly also stick close to the SQL standard, so that there should be no trouble finding tutorials or literature.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.Downloaded. I'll give it a whirl on my next new project.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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So I am in my mid thirties and a COO of a small business. Way back when in High School I took some programming classes and loved it. VB6. Fast forward to college and started in computer science before I hated a few professors in a row and switched to business school. So In ever followed through on what was my intent at that point of being a programmer / developer. Now, I see a real need for my business for a centralized application that can handle a multitude of things. Basically, we are a very unique company and not out of the box software fits all of our needs. I am realistic and I know I am not going to create an end all software application for my company. I totally get that. This is a side hobby for me (and I have kids too so we'll see how much time I have). BUt I have always loved problem solving, computers, and the thought of programming really intrigues me. Since I knew VB6 (based on high school classes, far from an expert) I am inclined to think VB.net is the best place to start and learn. But for me to learn through a project, if you are recommending to a newbie who wants to dabble with one application and never do this for a living... What would you recommend to them studying, learning, and playing with? It would need to be a database application too so that factors in. Web or desktop I dont know. I am inclined to think web takes so much of the complication out of connectivity and end user experience. But is it powerful enough to really do thinks. Here would be my start: Right now we take meeting minutes manually in a word based template. This software would have data entry for the minutes, keep it organized, and automatically distribute to all participants after the meeting. First feature. Second feature is a shop drawing log and submittal tracker. So when we make something custom, we prepare a detail drawing. Send it to an architect for approval. When it is approved sned to the manufacturer to release into production. Track all of these submissions etc. That would be number two. I would start with those two small features and continue slowly to add one at a time. Just a slow release of new functionality as our team realizes they need something. Recommendations?
Learn C# maybe with the focus on Xamarin for mobile platform. The are a lot of tutorials in web - some for free but think about a paid plan to get serious. The all important question is for what or whom do want to make software?
Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany
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Downloaded. I'll give it a whirl on my next new project.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Great! Don't forget PgAdmin and I will look what the .Net connector was called. I think the installer will suggest some tools and download them for you if you want.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Great! Don't forget PgAdmin and I will look what the .Net connector was called. I think the installer will suggest some tools and download them for you if you want.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.Their own web-site was an absolute nightmare to use, so I downloaded it from a freeware site. I'll probably do the same for any non-automatic extensions.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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So I am in my mid thirties and a COO of a small business. Way back when in High School I took some programming classes and loved it. VB6. Fast forward to college and started in computer science before I hated a few professors in a row and switched to business school. So In ever followed through on what was my intent at that point of being a programmer / developer. Now, I see a real need for my business for a centralized application that can handle a multitude of things. Basically, we are a very unique company and not out of the box software fits all of our needs. I am realistic and I know I am not going to create an end all software application for my company. I totally get that. This is a side hobby for me (and I have kids too so we'll see how much time I have). BUt I have always loved problem solving, computers, and the thought of programming really intrigues me. Since I knew VB6 (based on high school classes, far from an expert) I am inclined to think VB.net is the best place to start and learn. But for me to learn through a project, if you are recommending to a newbie who wants to dabble with one application and never do this for a living... What would you recommend to them studying, learning, and playing with? It would need to be a database application too so that factors in. Web or desktop I dont know. I am inclined to think web takes so much of the complication out of connectivity and end user experience. But is it powerful enough to really do thinks. Here would be my start: Right now we take meeting minutes manually in a word based template. This software would have data entry for the minutes, keep it organized, and automatically distribute to all participants after the meeting. First feature. Second feature is a shop drawing log and submittal tracker. So when we make something custom, we prepare a detail drawing. Send it to an architect for approval. When it is approved sned to the manufacturer to release into production. Track all of these submissions etc. That would be number two. I would start with those two small features and continue slowly to add one at a time. Just a slow release of new functionality as our team realizes they need something. Recommendations?
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By the time he drinks it there would be already Angular 29.5
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
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If you have learned VB6, then I'd suggest that you learn C# rather than VB.NET. VB6 and VB.NET are too similar, and it's easy to get into old habits and use things you know instead of the newer, more flexible versions. C# avoids that by having a pretty different syntax. Get a book - or better a course - and give it a go! The tools are all free, just google "Visual Studio Community Edition" and download direct from Microsoft.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Not only that: VB.NET has come capabilities less than C#, which means that when he will progress enough he will still have to learn another language, with an entire different syntax from VB. C# is the .NET language, and its C-like syntax eases the passage to most languages. And there are way more examples/guides/tutorials/whatsoever.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
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Member 13044355 wrote:
Recommendations?
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, wait till you hire an amateur. Great that it's your hobby - keep it that way and get a real pro in to do a proper job - it will save you money and heartache in the long run. If you do insist on going down the road, use c#. Good luck.
Absolutely. Great that you have an interest in programming, definitely go for it as a hobby if you have the time. But do NOT write software for your company that it will depend on, or whose failure could cost the company time. The company is not only YOUR source of income, it's the support for your staff. Do not lumber your "baby" with software written by a beginner. You'd no more do that than take time out building offices for your staff with no prior experience. Either hire a permanent, experienced staff member or work closely with a reputable freelancer. Get as involved as you like (but don't take your eye off running your business). Learn from them and by all means get involved in the process. Otherwise, not only do you risk your business but you also probably lose your hobby, as you will be frustrated and come to hate software development as you see the damage it's doing.
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So I am in my mid thirties and a COO of a small business. Way back when in High School I took some programming classes and loved it. VB6. Fast forward to college and started in computer science before I hated a few professors in a row and switched to business school. So In ever followed through on what was my intent at that point of being a programmer / developer. Now, I see a real need for my business for a centralized application that can handle a multitude of things. Basically, we are a very unique company and not out of the box software fits all of our needs. I am realistic and I know I am not going to create an end all software application for my company. I totally get that. This is a side hobby for me (and I have kids too so we'll see how much time I have). BUt I have always loved problem solving, computers, and the thought of programming really intrigues me. Since I knew VB6 (based on high school classes, far from an expert) I am inclined to think VB.net is the best place to start and learn. But for me to learn through a project, if you are recommending to a newbie who wants to dabble with one application and never do this for a living... What would you recommend to them studying, learning, and playing with? It would need to be a database application too so that factors in. Web or desktop I dont know. I am inclined to think web takes so much of the complication out of connectivity and end user experience. But is it powerful enough to really do thinks. Here would be my start: Right now we take meeting minutes manually in a word based template. This software would have data entry for the minutes, keep it organized, and automatically distribute to all participants after the meeting. First feature. Second feature is a shop drawing log and submittal tracker. So when we make something custom, we prepare a detail drawing. Send it to an architect for approval. When it is approved sned to the manufacturer to release into production. Track all of these submissions etc. That would be number two. I would start with those two small features and continue slowly to add one at a time. Just a slow release of new functionality as our team realizes they need something. Recommendations?
I'm quite sure that you are not going to follow my recommendation (noone does!), but I'll present it anyway: Forget all sorts of coding for a while. For quite a while! All about VB, C#, SQL, ... Spend a lot of effort on exactly defining your tasks, and the information you are handling. How one piece of information is tied to another pice. Which is the 'master', which is a copy of a master, or derived from some master(s). Which information is required by which tasks/operations. All that is comes under the umbrella "Data modelling". Try to stay away from putting it into code (including SQL) until you have a good, complete understanding of all the information you are handling in your business. You may use formal or semi-formal data modelling methods (I am myself very fond of Entity-Relationship, ER, due to several very succesful projects using ER - but it isn't exactly fashionable today!), but a less formal method is still a lot better than bringing in coding languages. Once you have completed the data model, with all sorts of relationships and restrictions, and described how your procedures use and manipulate the various data entities, writing the actual code is a job for an inexperienced teenager :-). (That is to say: All the difficult problems have been solved before you start coding.) Most people grin at such proposals: Of course we already know which data we are handling. We know where we need the data! ... But that is until you start creating a data model. As soon as you start asking details about which entities may be multi-valued, why seemingly the same information appears in two places in the model, which is the primary value, which are derived values, why an operation addresses entities from different parts of the model where you have not identified a relationship between them, and so on. Several times I have had people with 20-40 years of working experience in their professional field light up: "Is that how it fits together? Yes, you are right!" They have seen all the trees, but never considered the forest. That's what data modelling is for. Understanding the problem you need to solve before you start solving it definitely not in the modern 'agile' style. Nowadays, people say: "OK, so you've got a problem. Let's first start with 'int main(int argc, char** argv) {}' ...Now we are going at it! Will you try to describe your problem, and I can jot down some rudimentary code for solving it, as you are talking, and we will fill in more code as the problem becomes clearer." That's
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I appreciate the quick response but unfortunately that is a major part of our issue now as a company. We have so many different tools and technologies (some of which we need external users to be part of, not just internal) the common response from our team is there is just too much to keep track of. We cant update our CRM, our PM tool, our accounting tool, our chat, our email, our file subscriptions, etc. So I am trying to find a platform that can bring all of this under one roof. I looked at tons of PSA software, but they are soooooo complicated and many out of the box have so many features we would never use. Just looking to slowly integrate our tools into one platform so people one day could have one place to go for things.
I don't understand your logic. I use Chrome for web browsing, Outlook for emails, Lync for calls and screen sharing, Visual Studio for writing code, Teams for team chat (used to use Slack), Word for writing documents, Excel for spreadsheets and so on - there's no need to combine it all in one app. There's no need to combine even some of it in one app. Where tool proliferation can cause a problem is if you have multiple tools that do the same job. For instance, for communication we have email, Lync, Teams and Yammer, which is too much. The solution is to agree on just one of them for the main method of communication. We have settled on Teams for most stuff, with Lync for calls and email for stuff that doesn't really fit within Teams. We mostly ignore Yammer.
Regards Nelviticus
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Their own web-site was an absolute nightmare to use, so I downloaded it from a freeware site. I'll probably do the same for any non-automatic extensions.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
So....no Mongo love?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
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I appreciate the quick response but unfortunately that is a major part of our issue now as a company. We have so many different tools and technologies (some of which we need external users to be part of, not just internal) the common response from our team is there is just too much to keep track of. We cant update our CRM, our PM tool, our accounting tool, our chat, our email, our file subscriptions, etc. So I am trying to find a platform that can bring all of this under one roof. I looked at tons of PSA software, but they are soooooo complicated and many out of the box have so many features we would never use. Just looking to slowly integrate our tools into one platform so people one day could have one place to go for things.
Member 13044355 wrote:
Just looking to slowly integrate our tools into one platform so people one day could have one place to go for things.
Ah...one app to rule them all! Sounds like a noble cause, perhaps a decent web front end that talks to everything else via web services. For some services, that might be easy, for others, good luck! But I get what you mean now. ;) Marc
V.A.P.O.R.ware - Visual Assisted Programming / Organizational Representation Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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So....no Mongo love?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
I'm tempted -- I mean I just adore the default high-security settings! It needs a good poke.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm tempted -- I mean I just adore the default high-security settings! It needs a good poke.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Default settings are for victims.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
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Default settings are for victims.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
Nathan Minier wrote:
Default settings are for victims.
Literally, given the number of bots poking mongo installations.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm tempted -- I mean I just adore the default high-security settings! It needs a good poke.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
So the general thought is PostGres or MySql for a database back end? If, and that is a big if, this ever became something we really were able to roll out and use we could be talking about 40 people accessing data. So not thousands, but not two. I have done visual basic connections to access in the past, and thought about that route (as this is a simple application at least at the onset) but figured if I start with a bit more capability, I might be WAY better off long term in terms of conversion. I also was tempted to just look into azure or something like that so it is a hosted scenario elsewhere and I pay Microsoft to handle the BS. I just need to connect to it and that way people that travel dont need VPN to connect to the software and if I get web based I dont have to deal with hosting and security issues.
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Absolutely. Great that you have an interest in programming, definitely go for it as a hobby if you have the time. But do NOT write software for your company that it will depend on, or whose failure could cost the company time. The company is not only YOUR source of income, it's the support for your staff. Do not lumber your "baby" with software written by a beginner. You'd no more do that than take time out building offices for your staff with no prior experience. Either hire a permanent, experienced staff member or work closely with a reputable freelancer. Get as involved as you like (but don't take your eye off running your business). Learn from them and by all means get involved in the process. Otherwise, not only do you risk your business but you also probably lose your hobby, as you will be frustrated and come to hate software development as you see the damage it's doing.
Well the challenge is purely the cost. Exploring the custom software route looks like a FORTUNE. Again, will this ever be something the company really utilizes. I dont know. Just something I have always enjoyed doing and wanted to learn more. So rather than dabble on just bs tutorials out there I thought it might be a bit more enjoyable and a learning experience to attempt to do something useful and purposeful for my "day job"
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I don't understand your logic. I use Chrome for web browsing, Outlook for emails, Lync for calls and screen sharing, Visual Studio for writing code, Teams for team chat (used to use Slack), Word for writing documents, Excel for spreadsheets and so on - there's no need to combine it all in one app. There's no need to combine even some of it in one app. Where tool proliferation can cause a problem is if you have multiple tools that do the same job. For instance, for communication we have email, Lync, Teams and Yammer, which is too much. The solution is to agree on just one of them for the main method of communication. We have settled on Teams for most stuff, with Lync for calls and email for stuff that doesn't really fit within Teams. We mostly ignore Yammer.
Regards Nelviticus
If they were clear and unconnected services I would agree. Today we have several major platforms. We use a CRM, a task/project management software suite, a file sharing application, a chat program, and email etc. For right now the file sharing, chat, and email are individual needs I have no intentions of trying to change over from. However, the challenge is we are a project based company. So our business development team has to log all types of information about the CRM. And our opportunities have several different phases all of which have different revenue opportunities attached to them. I have yet to find any CRM that can handle this so we have to duplicate tons of information. When the deal is signed it flips over to our project management / task management platform. All of that history, all of that data, all of that information is essentially lost or has to be recreated. The systems dont talk to each other. It is like trying to learn the project all over again. Our bus development team has to CONSTANTLY be updating and uploading and modifying and tweaking in both. On top of all of their other activities. It is a bear for responsibility. Nothing out of the box starts to merge those two pieces. Seperately, we are not an architect or engineer so software geared for those individuals does not work out of the box for us. But much of our process is replicated from them so we need the functionality of certain tracking elements. but again nothing out of the box has this since we do not fit into a typical industry platform. It yields a lot of inefficiencies and duplication of data and information.
