A Career in Programming which way to go!

[Kirk 10389821]

Okay, you sound intelligent, and you seem articulate. That's a good start. There are great answers above this one. Get out there. Don't wait for the degree. In capitalism, you can usually get hired if you are willing to take a few less pounds, and have some energy, and want to improve. But think outside the box. Scour the job sources and find what is out there. Go interview with a few of the companies that are looking for people, and see what THEY value in your area. I will warn you one thing. You are 28. You are beginning the cognitive decline phase. You are older for getting started in a world where most 40 year olds are getting out and into management. This is a young persons sport (overall). Everyone is different, clearly. But this is the trend. Most of the old programmers I know are stuck maintaining 40 year old legacy code (like cobol). And most of the ones over 50 are HAPPY with this! == My point is that KNOWING how to program can have you be a manager or a programmer, or both. Be flexible in your goals and see what else might be there. Like everyone else has said. Problem Solving skills are KEY. Experience is more important than education (these days especially). HTH

[AmidstTheRuins]

Pick an area and get good enough at it to get hired. e.g. .NET Desktop apps .NET Web apps Webforms,.NET Web Apps MVC, Java web apps, Python web apps. In other words pick a set of tools (IDE, database) and build things with them. The .NET environment tooling is different from the Java environment despite both being application programming languages. Same can be said for front end web dev or even developing on a different platform e.g. if you use Windows, Mac or Linux. Don't try and learn loads of different platforms to begin with as when you get a job it is likely the main project you are working in will be a single platform. You can learn lots of other platforms once you are hired. Once you have a job after a year you will be able to apply for other jobs such is the demand in the UK. Also you end up repeating yourself which is pointless, for example i'm doing a uni course where I am learning Python and using it to parse HTML and XML. I already have 5+ years experience with C# and .NET so I could do it much quicker with this. I'm not sure I need to know another language currently to perform this task (using Python as it's required for the course). Although learning more than one language is a great thing to do, it's something to do after you have published with your first language. Be willing to apply for jobs outside of a 20 mile radius of where you live and maybe be willing to move. I stayed in the same area but it took me ages after uni to find a job as I only searched in my local area when there are 1000s of developer jobs uk wide. Search for different programming types online and focus on one. Watch training videos on Pluralsight (worth the monthly cost). Pay to speed up your learning - e.g. buy some hosting or cloud credits so you can actually do stuff. It's all good reading loads but if you have done it once this will help when you start a job. This point will be controversial but if you are learning .NET you can start with VB.NET as it is easy to pick up. You can then learn C# alongside or a few months after as it uses the same libraries. You might not want to tarnish your brain this way (learning VB) but it is easy to pick up also there is a lot of demand for Excel VBA which is practically the same (just a different environment). You are always going to need to know SQL and probably XML. Build a tool/write some code which takes a JSON or XML file, serialises it to objects and then inserts it into a database. If you don't know what this is then Google how to do each t

[Terry Slack]

I to went back to School at 30 for Programming. Am have a pretty good career going. That being said, why don't you get your education over with, and look for internships or "Work Terms" during your summer months. Better yet, get into a Coop program. I can almost guarantee that the working relationships you make in either one or all of these places, will lead you to be employed. I found in my case that I was hired before I even graduated. Plus, although you might make a small wage in your first work term, if you prove valuable, there's nothing from stopping you from asking for an entry level wage the next time you work for them. It's a great way to gain experience, setup a network,learn how to code in a professional environment and lay the ground work early for a full time position upon graduation. I have never had anyone ask about my education, other than wanting to know if I had a piece of paper. What you will learn in school will give you a foundation, even if the technology may be out of date. If anything it will teach you to learn on your own. Although you appear to have a good head start on that already. Good luck you.

[Benjamin Liedblad]

Service engineer working in horticulture... is that code for clearing weeds from the cannabis crop? :doh: Not sure of the details of your work, but lets say there are several "locations" you maintain. Does the company you work for have any type of software to track which "locations" have been serviced? Even if the company already has this tool, I suggest writing a Django app (as you are already learning Python) which you could use to track your servicing activities. Work in phases. First track where you have been, then expand the tool to include predictive behavior (i.e. have not been to location "X" in 5 weeks, time for preventative maintenance). You could even have the app create reports on which "locations" are the most problematic - if you add info about what machinery / tools the sites have, you could do comparisons on problematic vs. tool type, etc. As you already have knowledge of the horticulture service industry, you are in a great position to create a software tool like this - don't be discouraged if there already is an app that does this... New apps (though sometimes not better) are always supplanting older ones. The trick is to make yours better.

[jhoga]

One thing I would suggest. Is get involved. Local user groups and Code Camps are great places to meet contacts. Write software for nonprofits, or find a local small business and solve their problems free. Afterward blog about the experience. Writing code is really about learning, and the best way to learn is to do.

[josh clay]

Everybody's story is different, I was still in school for my associate's degree when I got my first coding job. I had taken a couple classes in C# and just decided one day that," Yeah, this is fun, I can do this." I interviewed for an entry-level position shortly after that and managed to get it. I think a lot of people will agree that professional experience outweighs the importance of having degrees or certifications, so the one piece of advice that I can say is consistently correct is to keep trying to get an entry-level job no matter your level of training. You can always keep training on your own time, but just lucking out and getting that first job is the springboard that will get your career going. Not only will you start getting that magical entity of "experience" you will learn exponentially quicker what skills are and are not useful in the real-world. I also recommend joining local developer groups and trying to pick up a mentor, whether it be at one of these or at work. Having someone on your side can save you so much time. There's some warm and fuzzy feeling to be gained by grinding out problems on your own, but sometimes good, old-fashioned wisdom will get you really far really quickly (and hopefully in the right direction). Have fun!

[Doug Langston]

I've managed to support my family for 30 years by being a language specialist, specifically C-based languages (C, C++, C# and Java). C of course is passé, you can skip that one. Once you're employed with these skills you can easily teach yourself other technologies du jour. I believe you need to choose one of 2 paths: primary languages OR web technologies. A language specialist is typically paid more (in large companies) but times are changing. Either choice will make you marketable.

[jhoga]

As a 60+ I say your generalization of old programs is incorrect. I don't maintain legacy code, and have not been impressed with most of the "young" programmers I meet. There is a lot of soft skills required for software development that only come with experience.

[B4DG3R]

That's actually very well said. To be perfectly honest if I am writing on paper I am much better than with a phone! For some reason I do have a very bad habit of short typing words and not double checking before posting. Thank you I will take it under my belt.

[Steve Naidamast]

B4DG3R: It sounds like you are already off to a good start. However, here are a few things to note as you progress... I... Never use accepted word conjugations such as "wanna", "gonna", "kinda", etc. This is terrible and improper English and will be noticed right away in anything you write for a prospective, professional position or to a person in such a position of hiring you may contact directly. This new form of sloppy English is becoming the norm on the Internet and demonstrates a lack of concern for precision, which the software development field is constructed of. II... I completely agree with the commenters here that suggest you continue your studied part-time. However, if you want to remain in the technical areas, depending on the expectations of the nation you are living in, certifications or two-year university courses should be more than enough to get you into a technical position if you can demonstrate other qualifications. If technical management is your goal, than you will most likely require at minimum a university degree. I cannot speak for technical management in Europe but in the United States it is most often a morass of arrogance, technical know-it-alls, and incompetence. From the standpoint of one who has spent 42 years in the technical trenches, your ability to survive in the profession is much better in the pure technical areas than in management. III... I would stay away from "Boot Camps" for learning technologies. They are often just "certificate factories" and have been recently written up as such. They do not prepare you for the real world of software development and engineering. You are far better off becoming a self-taught developer. Because we have to wrestle with finding solutions more on our own, such experience tends to make you a superior developer in the long run. You can learn just as much from a good book and doing your own development projects than you can from an accelerated course. I have taken quite a few courses before "Boot Camps" became popular that were similar in nature and I found most of them to be not only quite tedious but worthless compared to what I was teaching myself. IV... Web development these days sounds very exciting to those who have never done it professionally. However, there are a lot of downfalls to entering the profession from this avenue. Web development today is a complete mess from the Microsoft side of things as it is predicated on what tools you use and not how well you c

[Ian Newson]

I'm a developer and have been professionally for 12 years, and I've been hiring and recruiting developers for the past 8. I think you first need to define what sort of role you'd like to end up in. If you want to work for a large company (a Google or a Microsoft) then a degree is definitely necessary. If you want to work for a small company then not so much. Assuming you don't mind too much where you work (at first, at least) then I'd say it's far more important to be able to demonstrate your abilities. A degree is good, but I've met plenty of developers with a degree who couldn't code, and several without degrees who are experts. If you can demonstrate your abilities through real world examples then people will generally take notice. For example, you could write some apps and release them to the stores, or contribute to some open source projects.

[sasadler]

What kind of programming do you seem to like? There are lots of different areas you could focus on with their own 'popular' languages. I've been building/programming computers since the late 70s and have actually written very few Windows programs. I'm into low level programming where I have pretty much complete control of the processor and peripherals. I use RTOSes(also written a few of my own), USB device stacks, DSP algorithms, etc. You don't have to be a Windows programmer, there are other options out there.

[Lost User]

Pick a "stack", and go nuts. My "stack" is .NET: Windows; C#; WPF; WCF; SQL Server; IIS; etc. Then there's the "LAMP" stack: Linux; Apache; MySQL; PHP. Or, go "mobile": Android; IOS; Xamarin; etc. Then start going to "freelancer" sites and take stock of who wants what ... And start bidding on jobs. You now gain experience working on little jobs and learn "business" at the same time: estimating; client relations; getting ripped off; etc. And, before you know it (if you're good), you have a (5 star) "portfolio" and you're in business. (Starting "another" new SCADA project for the largest company of its kind after "making myself" in just that fashion).

"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then". ― Blaise Pascal

[B4DG3R]

I would just like to say thank you to all that have replied. There is a wealth of information here and I am great full for it all! Thanks again

[Hamza Ahmed Zia]

Choose one among several ways that lead to the cloud. 1. Pick a cloud provider ( Amazon and Microsoft are the two biggies ) 2. Learn their infrastructure as a service and platform as a service offerings and develop small applications with them ( You can have free credits of their cloud offerings ). Keep it public on git so that it reflects on your portfolio 3. Host your own website/blog on their free offering. 4. Build your resume with their taglines and start sending to small companies who are looking for cloud talent. See how you fare, come back and learn what you are lacking. Keep Repeating step 4 until you get your first gig. 5. Once you get your first gig, do not stop learning, keep building your knowledge. I have to tell you it is a slow and pain(ful) process till the time you get your first gig. Best of luck:thumbsup:

[KBZX5000]

Saw this a bit late, but I still wanted to follow up: Experience vs qualification requirements are different for different companies. (ikr :P) Smaller companies will often hire you without qualifications if you look capable and present yourself at the right moment. The dangers with getting a degree first, is that you're already 28, which means you will still need to get an entry level job (albeit with slightly higher pay) later on, when you're 30+. That's not an ideal situation for a few reasons: you're not gaining any experience in the meantime, you're not generating cash, and your chances of getting hired stay about the same. (more qualified on paper but also older)

[mbb01]

I suppose I'm well late with my advice but here are my thoughts. Programming is an unusual profession because it doesn't necessarily require qualifications to gain entry. Experience counts for an awful lot. I would say pursue your studies (HNC) at night school - it is what I did - but now you must focus on gaining that entry. I don't think a lack of experience has to work against you, it could be an advantage because you will be so much cheaper. At 28 you ought to be able to present yourself as a reliable and mature person that an employer will be able to rely upon. Having said that, you may find that you have to attend a lot of interviews before you get anywhere. Would be employers are incredibly cagey and interview practices are notoriously subjective. At one point in my career I did something in the order of 40 interviews before I made any headway. It probably won't be that bad for you because I had a number of mitigating circumstances, but even so don't be disheartened when a would be Senior Dev pulls your wings off because you didn't 'get'his pet problem. Agents can be tricky to work with, but a good one can really make the difference. Just be careful that they are telling the truth about you to a prospective employer. To begin with I would suggest you may be able to pick up short term contracts at a low rate. Possibly you could discuss an extended probation period with a full time employer. Working from home might be an option. Be careful of picking up work from places like People Per Hour. Make sure you carefully scope any work. Expect to have to travel, but you might be surprised how many local firms there might be. You might also find that there are local firms that might want a bit of IT done on the side for cheap. You may also consider testing automation (Selenium, simulators) as a route into development. In your situation I would avoid any jobs that are directly related to supporting an existing product. That will come later on anyway and there won't really be the opportunities to flex your new development muscles in the way you would like. Don't get me wrong, support can be a very challenging environment but it often doesn't get the respect or kudos it deserves. If you wind up as that support engineer there is a very real possibility that you will be passed over on the really good development opportunities. Finally, remember: software development requires confidence in yourself and your abilities. If you lose that confidence you're toast as a developer. Never ta

[B4DG3R]

Never too late! I'll take every piece of advice I can get at this point and thank you for taking the time. I have looked around the local area and there are a surprising amount of positions in development around! A hell of a lot more than I expected there to be. A lot of apprenticeship type position aimed at school leavers which are very low paid and quite a few junior dev positions 25 - 30k, my problem at the minute is I don't know enough for a junior dev position in my opinion and I can't afford the pay drop back to an apprenticeship! I'd be taking a pay cut to a junior position but I always expected that! I'm gonna continue with my studies for a couple of years I think and then try and get into an junior level position. I want some more knowledge behind me before I take the leap I think but I am going to keep my eyes open to see what's around.