Some advice needed...
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Thanks for this. I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. I do think I need to continue my own growth though from people I consider more knowledgable than myself. It's just been my go-to for that has been books rather than those around me. But, your post rings totally true man. Thanks for your perspective.
Jeremy Falcon
some additional points to this below
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
But, what happens when you feel even that's been exhausted from those in your daily life?
I come to the lounge :) :-D :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Touché. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
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Booze. :beer: Enough of it to bring yourself down to everybody else's level. At that point you won't care anymore.
:-D
Jeremy Falcon
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I believe you are correct sir.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Two safe bets: 0. You can't do all the things I do really well as well as I can do them. 1. I can't do all the things you do really well as well as you can do them. Ergo: 0. According to my standards, you're stupid. 1. According to your standards, I'm stupid. If you believe can do your job better or more effectively than colleagues who do the same job: 0. You might be wrong, because you're judging based on the elements of the job that you do well, and not those that you do less well -- and which of these is more important is not your decision to make. 1. You might be right, in which case, ask for a raise.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Two safe bets: 0. You can't do all the things I do really well as well as I can do them. 1. I can't do all the things you do really well as well as you can do them. Ergo: 0. According to my standards, you're stupid. 1. According to your standards, I'm stupid. If you believe can do your job better or more effectively than colleagues who do the same job: 0. You might be wrong, because you're judging based on the elements of the job that you do well, and not those that you do less well -- and which of these is more important is not your decision to make. 1. You might be right, in which case, ask for a raise.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I get what you're saying, and I appreciate it. Thanks for the advice.
Jeremy Falcon
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ronlease wrote:
Being the smartest guy could mean that you're completely delusional. Or it could also mean you're truly in a position to mentor somebody else. Believe me, you can learn even more by teaching / mentoring / coaching / whatever.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I can confirm it. Training the new co-workers in previous company was sometimes totally challenging me, how to explain that so obvious for me in a way that they understood it. You might not learn more technologically speaking (although you still do it) but what you do learn is social competence, how to communicate better and other staff that maybe will not increase your knowledge but your wisdom and make it a not a smarter but a better person
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Well said.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment?
IMHO, that's a clear signal to move on and seek a position where you will be technically challenged and have the ability to grow. I don't know in what part of the US you're located, but positions like these can readily be found in Silicon Valley, New England and the Seattle area. Of course, they're not limited to these locales, but you're likely to find more choice in these areas. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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:thumbsup: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
If you are tempted to doubt the Holocaust, watch some of the videos America put together about the state they found the concentration camps in. Not for the feint of heart, but HIGHLY worth watching, so you know the absurdity of such stupid claims: [Nazi Concentration Camps : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/nazi\_concentration\_camps). I think there are others if you do some searching on archive.org, but am not sure.
Sudden Sun Death Syndrome (SSDS) is a very real concern which we should be raising awareness of. 156 billion suns die every year before they're just 1 billion years old. While the military are doing their part, it simply isn't enough to make the amount of nukes needed to save those poor stars. - TWI2T3D (Reddit)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment?
IMHO, that's a clear signal to move on and seek a position where you will be technically challenged and have the ability to grow. I don't know in what part of the US you're located, but positions like these can readily be found in Silicon Valley, New England and the Seattle area. Of course, they're not limited to these locales, but you're likely to find more choice in these areas. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
I'm in the Los Angeles area. And it's not even just technical challenges I'm after... people skills, management skills, anything really I'd like to grow in.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Sorry Jeremy I can't help you, I have almost always known I am not the smartest person in the room. I work with some absolutely brilliant minds, the MD also has ability to locate and hire other brilliant minds so I get to see some of them work. The only thing I bring to the table is experience and the desire to not take any crap from bureaucracy.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Sorry Jeremy I can't help you, I have almost always known I am not the smartest person in the room. I work with some absolutely brilliant minds, the MD also has ability to locate and hire other brilliant minds so I get to see some of them work. The only thing I bring to the table is experience and the desire to not take any crap from bureaucracy.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Then you are a lucky man.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Surely, someone on CP has faced this too?
I'll take a stab at this. I've been on both sides of the fence, feeling like the people I'm working with are little better than zombies, and also experiencing people who can think circles around me. In both situations, I often choose patience. Patience with them, patience with me. And it is NOT easy--I think patience is one of the hardest skills to learn. What's really interesting though, and this brings me to my second point, is when you're in a room full of basically smart people in their own way, but you know damn well that each of them is performing the equivalent of mental bowel movements at their own pace. Or, less colorful, "digestion." This is an important thing to consider, because everyone digests at a different rate -- taking in the useful information, discarding the non-essential. And to make it worse, the essential and non-essential is different for every person. Oh yeah, my second point -- communication. The funny thing is, those people that can run circles around me, well, they actually struggle with communication often enough, just as I struggle with communication when I'm running circles around other people. So that's the second hardest skill to learn and requires skill in the first. The patience to communicate clearly. And the third point is, it's a total waste of energy comparing yourself to others. You are both unique and different (I'll skip the BS talk about everyone having different "gifts" and "everyone has different talents" which in my opinion is BS because so few people actually really reach their talent potential.) Sooo....
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
I look at myself (depending on my mood) and accept the challenge to communicate what I think I see so clearly with the patience necessary to wait for others to see it. And the funny thing is, by communication, I actually mean listening, because in order to figure out what, often enough (I'm quite serious) needs to be said in about 10 words and 10 seconds (as opposed to this post) is the result of intense listening to learn where the other person is struggling and to get into their mindset / digestive process. And when I realize what that is, it's like freaking magic. It's an awesome experience for everyone when the room sudden
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Funny you should mention that, you're actually damn near spot on with what I think I should do to continue to grow. Just put the focus elsewhere.
Jeremy Falcon
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Sorry Jeremy I can't help you, I have almost always known I am not the smartest person in the room. I work with some absolutely brilliant minds, the MD also has ability to locate and hire other brilliant minds so I get to see some of them work. The only thing I bring to the table is experience and the desire to not take any crap from bureaucracy.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
The only thing I bring to the table is experience and the desire to not take any crap from bureaucracy.
And that is already a good apportation.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Surely, someone on CP has faced this too?
I'll take a stab at this. I've been on both sides of the fence, feeling like the people I'm working with are little better than zombies, and also experiencing people who can think circles around me. In both situations, I often choose patience. Patience with them, patience with me. And it is NOT easy--I think patience is one of the hardest skills to learn. What's really interesting though, and this brings me to my second point, is when you're in a room full of basically smart people in their own way, but you know damn well that each of them is performing the equivalent of mental bowel movements at their own pace. Or, less colorful, "digestion." This is an important thing to consider, because everyone digests at a different rate -- taking in the useful information, discarding the non-essential. And to make it worse, the essential and non-essential is different for every person. Oh yeah, my second point -- communication. The funny thing is, those people that can run circles around me, well, they actually struggle with communication often enough, just as I struggle with communication when I'm running circles around other people. So that's the second hardest skill to learn and requires skill in the first. The patience to communicate clearly. And the third point is, it's a total waste of energy comparing yourself to others. You are both unique and different (I'll skip the BS talk about everyone having different "gifts" and "everyone has different talents" which in my opinion is BS because so few people actually really reach their talent potential.) Sooo....
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
I look at myself (depending on my mood) and accept the challenge to communicate what I think I see so clearly with the patience necessary to wait for others to see it. And the funny thing is, by communication, I actually mean listening, because in order to figure out what, often enough (I'm quite serious) needs to be said in about 10 words and 10 seconds (as opposed to this post) is the result of intense listening to learn where the other person is struggling and to get into their mindset / digestive process. And when I realize what that is, it's like freaking magic. It's an awesome experience for everyone when the room sudden
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Pity I can only vote 5
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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But seriously, my mind goes at a billion MPH, and I find that I arrive at a conclusion long before everyone else, and that despite my best effort, I can't hurry everyone else up to the same conclusion, so while they're plodding along making committee decisions, I've got the code about halfway done in my mind and I'm ready to start actually writing it. That doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than everyone else, it's just that I instantly start mentally evaluating patterns and methods and coming up with a way forward, and then want to start implementing it. I usually have to wait for the requirements to catch up to me. Usually, I hit it right on the mark, but there are times when I have to make minor adjustments to account for the committee's lack of foresight and clarity. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I get where you are coming from. The challenge for you is the improve your ability to convey your solution to the group in a manner that does not put them down. So while you are clearly smarter at getting to the technical solution you are not as smart with regard to expressing your ideas clear enough that the others understand your solutions. Also a campaign of trying to convince everyone that you are right is a path to eventual misery. Sometimes you have to take the committee solution even though it is less optimal than your own solution. It's a challenge, but if you can't clearly present your solutions as superior then you need to be part of the team and work towards the team solution. Some of this may not have been directly on point, but I hope you find some use of it. - Good Luck.