Some advice needed...
-
So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Aside from the suggestion to get involved in side projects, I'm getting the sense you may not have gotten a satisfying response yet, so I'll throw my two cents in. Share and teach what you know You could use the excess intellectual bandwidth to find ways to help others past the "dazed and confused" state they are in. Find ways to make what you're doing more clear, concise and engaging. This in itself can be challenging. It's one thing to design and implement complex solutions which you understand, but it's something completely different to create/design/implement solutions which are simple, elegant and accessible to others. I'm not suggesting you dumb down what you do, but rather, play to the room. If the room isn't at your level, then work on getting them there. If your peers aren't willing to try and get passed the "dazed and confused" stage, that indicates a problem of the will and not necessarily intellect. If this is the case, then find somewhere that a)Has people that are closer to your level or b)Has people that are open to learning. The developers I've admired and respected most have been the ones that have been not only been incredibly intelligent, but who also had a desire to share and teach others.
-
Only if I can grow a beard with it.
Jeremy Falcon
I resemble that ... beard and all!
-
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Surely, someone on CP has faced this too?
I'll take a stab at this. I've been on both sides of the fence, feeling like the people I'm working with are little better than zombies, and also experiencing people who can think circles around me. In both situations, I often choose patience. Patience with them, patience with me. And it is NOT easy--I think patience is one of the hardest skills to learn. What's really interesting though, and this brings me to my second point, is when you're in a room full of basically smart people in their own way, but you know damn well that each of them is performing the equivalent of mental bowel movements at their own pace. Or, less colorful, "digestion." This is an important thing to consider, because everyone digests at a different rate -- taking in the useful information, discarding the non-essential. And to make it worse, the essential and non-essential is different for every person. Oh yeah, my second point -- communication. The funny thing is, those people that can run circles around me, well, they actually struggle with communication often enough, just as I struggle with communication when I'm running circles around other people. So that's the second hardest skill to learn and requires skill in the first. The patience to communicate clearly. And the third point is, it's a total waste of energy comparing yourself to others. You are both unique and different (I'll skip the BS talk about everyone having different "gifts" and "everyone has different talents" which in my opinion is BS because so few people actually really reach their talent potential.) Sooo....
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
I look at myself (depending on my mood) and accept the challenge to communicate what I think I see so clearly with the patience necessary to wait for others to see it. And the funny thing is, by communication, I actually mean listening, because in order to figure out what, often enough (I'm quite serious) needs to be said in about 10 words and 10 seconds (as opposed to this post) is the result of intense listening to learn where the other person is struggling and to get into their mindset / digestive process. And when I realize what that is, it's like freaking magic. It's an awesome experience for everyone when the room sudden
So Jeremy, I posted a reply somewhere a bit ago, but Marc, your reply is spot on. BTW Marc, thanks for the countless articles and contributions to this community.
-
Yeah, read some Heidegger, then you won't feel so excessively smart :) Mainstream culture is for the lowest common denominator. Most people feel like society is stupid, because that's the target demographic for most of our media and cultural programming.
-
Goes beyond business, for instance even domestic cats are smarter then their human owners, all the cat needs to do is hang around and act friendly, the owner has to go out and earn money, buy the food, carry it home, open the tin, and put it on the plate. Sure if the owner dies the cat is SOL, but in normal day-to-day life the cat's way ahead. 'smartest' is relative and fluid. It's not about being best, it's about getting what you want. All the cat really wants is food with the least effort. And finally yes: if you're stuck working with or/and for idiots you will be dragged down, the opposite will never happen. Only way to improve that situation is to leave - but first [to show you're smarter] have a plan on what's next. (Even the cat might leave if the neighbours food is better or less work - but it'll most likely take both if it's not too hard.)
Sin tack the any key okay
By that logic, fungi are the smartest creatures on the planet. You're just a fungus feast waiting to ripen.
-
So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
I know how you feel. That's my experience as well. However, as many on this thread have said, there are MANY dimensions of intelligence. And as you find new dimensions that are initially exciting and full of wonder, they too fade into drudgery of work once you begin to master them and tackle the deeper issues. It really is hard work in every dimension once you get past the initial fun hump. If you are bored, you either aren't challenged, or you don't like challenges and just want the fun. If you're aren't challenged, you can find another job. There are tons of great employers doing exciting work. You can start your own company. You could read more about things you don't know. You could join or start a side project (or six). Lots of options. If you don't like challenges and just like to complain, then you're not as intelligent as you think - intelligent people solve problems. If you are great at coding, how are you at business? How well are you paid compared to your peers? I went into independent consulting over 10 years ago because I couldn't find any employers that could match the marketplace. When I'm working with a client's employees, it is not untypical for me to be making more than double what their best paid people make. I work lots of hours and get paid for them. So that's part of the equation. I've been on a pattern of taking two years out of every six to try and start my own businesses. I can the money I save from consulting and use it to fund my entrepreneurial persuits. I'm on the tail end of one of those cycles. I've spent the last two years building some pretty cool tech that I will be releasing this summer. I'm not sure if I will make my money back precisely (especially considering the opportunity cost of not working for two years), but it is worth it to me. If the risk pays off, it could pay off huge. If not, I always learn so much during those self driven cycles. My last venture didn't work out, but I shoot for the moon. This time I bit off something I could chew. It still ended up being a crazy amount of work though. And yet I think I'll have e something that I can grow and build upon (unlike the last venture which I had to fold). Find a pattern that works for you. Don't let your environment or apathy be the reason you don't succeed in your goals.
-
So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
A "really smart" person would figure out that there is as much to be learned from others, what not to do, for example, for himself. I believe you have been spending too much time in front of a mirror, or maybe you have some social disorder. I would look into that. Other people do not stifle your "personal development or growth", you do. Just so you know that I understand, I have an IQ of 141. Your problem is not with your "intelligence" it is with your empathy. I would knock of the "Humble Bragging", and worry more about what you are contributing to society than what it is doing for you.
-
So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
-
So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy, I have walked your path to discover: Frustration = (Expectation - Reality) * EGO; // I had it posted on my wall to remind me So, we become so smart, that we see where Reality SHOULD BE (Expectation), and that DIFFERENCE is a little unnerving (people who think nobody should starve, realizing millions are starving). The last factor is your EGO (or mine, back then). It makes the problem worse. If you had NO EGO, the difference would not bother you. This is often thought of wisdom. where the wise old man laughs at the folly of the youthful in tilting at windmills. Also, when everything is as it should be, all is fine. One feels no frustration.
-
Yeah I know what you mean and it's frustrating but there's nothing you can do about it. A lot of people are content to not progress further and you just have to accept it. Fortunately I can chose who I hang with!
Someone's therapist knows all about you!
Do you think it is possible that they are growing in other ways? Maybe in areas that are not directly visible at work. To be charitable, I think you must recognize this as a likely possibility.
-
Do you think it is possible that they are growing in other ways? Maybe in areas that are not directly visible at work. To be charitable, I think you must recognize this as a likely possibility.
Yes that is possible
Someone's therapist knows all about you!
-
Thanks for this. I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. I do think I need to continue my own growth though from people I consider more knowledgable than myself. It's just been my go-to for that has been books rather than those around me. But, your post rings totally true man. Thanks for your perspective.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I do think I need to continue my own growth though from people I consider more knowledgable than myself
Perhaps you need to continue your own growth by figuring out new things out for yourself. Don't just try to find someone to feed you knowledge, go out there and make some for the rest of us. And have you used your vast intelligence to help those around you learn and understand things? That's a skill all in itself -- how to teach people at a rate and level they can grasp, without putting them off, and without installing yourself on a pedestal as The Expert.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
-
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I do think I need to continue my own growth though from people I consider more knowledgable than myself
Perhaps you need to continue your own growth by figuring out new things out for yourself. Don't just try to find someone to feed you knowledge, go out there and make some for the rest of us. And have you used your vast intelligence to help those around you learn and understand things? That's a skill all in itself -- how to teach people at a rate and level they can grasp, without putting them off, and without installing yourself on a pedestal as The Expert.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
You know you're absolutely correct. After thinking about it over the weekend, I've come to realize I'm just in a toxic environment and my weaknesses have shown because of it. So, I very well may just have to change environments and try again, so I can start being a good person. Anyway, your post is spot on.
Jeremy Falcon
-
Jeremy, I have walked your path to discover: Frustration = (Expectation - Reality) * EGO; // I had it posted on my wall to remind me So, we become so smart, that we see where Reality SHOULD BE (Expectation), and that DIFFERENCE is a little unnerving (people who think nobody should starve, realizing millions are starving). The last factor is your EGO (or mine, back then). It makes the problem worse. If you had NO EGO, the difference would not bother you. This is often thought of wisdom. where the wise old man laughs at the folly of the youthful in tilting at windmills. Also, when everything is as it should be, all is fine. One feels no frustration.
Wow, man I have nothing to say except that's you're spot on. I keep getting caught up in the should be this way mentality. I've also come to learn that I'm just in a toxic environment, and that's only made the issue worse... my EGO and weaknesses have shown through a bit too much. I'm glad I talked to you guys (CP) about this.
Jeremy Falcon
-
I have this problem too (Sorry this was how I read it!) :) Go for Marcs solution if you can. "In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few germs you meet on occasion?"
Oh I'm not oversensitive. it is a problem if one can't learn to handle it. I mean the end result is we should all be happy right? So in that respect it's a problem. About to check out his post...
Jeremy Falcon
-
A "really smart" person would figure out that there is as much to be learned from others, what not to do, for example, for himself. I believe you have been spending too much time in front of a mirror, or maybe you have some social disorder. I would look into that. Other people do not stifle your "personal development or growth", you do. Just so you know that I understand, I have an IQ of 141. Your problem is not with your "intelligence" it is with your empathy. I would knock of the "Humble Bragging", and worry more about what you are contributing to society than what it is doing for you.
You're actually spot on. I've come to realize over the weekend that I'm just in a toxic environment. My weaknesses have shown through because of it. It's not something I'm proud of, but I can remove myself from the toxicity at least, so I can go back to being a good person... or at least try to be.
Jeremy Falcon
-
I know how you feel. That's my experience as well. However, as many on this thread have said, there are MANY dimensions of intelligence. And as you find new dimensions that are initially exciting and full of wonder, they too fade into drudgery of work once you begin to master them and tackle the deeper issues. It really is hard work in every dimension once you get past the initial fun hump. If you are bored, you either aren't challenged, or you don't like challenges and just want the fun. If you're aren't challenged, you can find another job. There are tons of great employers doing exciting work. You can start your own company. You could read more about things you don't know. You could join or start a side project (or six). Lots of options. If you don't like challenges and just like to complain, then you're not as intelligent as you think - intelligent people solve problems. If you are great at coding, how are you at business? How well are you paid compared to your peers? I went into independent consulting over 10 years ago because I couldn't find any employers that could match the marketplace. When I'm working with a client's employees, it is not untypical for me to be making more than double what their best paid people make. I work lots of hours and get paid for them. So that's part of the equation. I've been on a pattern of taking two years out of every six to try and start my own businesses. I can the money I save from consulting and use it to fund my entrepreneurial persuits. I'm on the tail end of one of those cycles. I've spent the last two years building some pretty cool tech that I will be releasing this summer. I'm not sure if I will make my money back precisely (especially considering the opportunity cost of not working for two years), but it is worth it to me. If the risk pays off, it could pay off huge. If not, I always learn so much during those self driven cycles. My last venture didn't work out, but I shoot for the moon. This time I bit off something I could chew. It still ended up being a crazy amount of work though. And yet I think I'll have e something that I can grow and build upon (unlike the last venture which I had to fold). Find a pattern that works for you. Don't let your environment or apathy be the reason you don't succeed in your goals.
Mark, you are spot on. About everything. I have nothing to say except that you should know I read every word and agree. Turns out I'm in a toxic environment, and it's brought out the worst in me. I needed to read this. Thanks.
Jeremy Falcon
-
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Touché!
Jeremy Falcon
-
Yeah, read some Heidegger, then you won't feel so excessively smart :) Mainstream culture is for the lowest common denominator. Most people feel like society is stupid, because that's the target demographic for most of our media and cultural programming.
You are correct sir.
Jeremy Falcon
-
I resemble that ... beard and all!
:-D
Jeremy Falcon
