Do you want some cheese with that whine?
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With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Cornelius Henning wrote:
will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority
:thumbsup: Count me in. I've been on 10 for almost 2 years and consider it to be the best OS I've used to date. (now if I could just get a grip on the unattended restarts) I've made a great career using MS technologies! I may complain occasionally, but acknowledge that overall these technologies (for the most part) have improved over the years while costing less or even becoming free.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP
This imho is all due to the number of devs using MS/Windows over other OS's...unless I'm to assume that the 'others' are so good and problem free that there's nothing to complain about. At any rate, it would make a great CP survey...primary OS for development? I'd predict Windows at 85% or so but I'm just guessing. :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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It's a complicated one... Just because it's free, doesn't mean it's good: in the last century you could get free wine if you went along to a time share meeting. That didn't mean it was a good idea to go at all! Win 10 splits opinion, probably because it's something of a mess. MS decided that they wanted the mobile market, so they produced a "mobile friendly" OS - and made it the only version available for desktops and mobiles. Trouble is, what they hit with a hammer to try and force it to be mobile hurt it as a desktop OS, and what they left to support desktop users hurt it as a mobile OS - try it on a tablet and you'll see what I mean; it's not not "together" as a mobile OS in the same way that Android (and even iOS) are (the soft keyboard alone is a PITA which eats half your screen!) And when you compare it's schizophrenia with Win7 which was "together" as a OS it just looks worse and can be very frustrating for "normal" users. Try working with the Settings app and you'll soon find yourself back at Control Panel! Don't get me wrong: I'm using it, both desktop and on the WookieTab. But as a desktop OS user experience, Win 7 was better. And as a mobile OS, it's far, far short of Android in many ways. What they should have done is taken a deep breath and designed a new OS for mobile, without all the legacy support they have to have in desktop. It might even have got them significant mobile sales...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
MS decided that they wanted the mobile market, so they produced a "mobile friendly" OS - and made it the only version available for desktops and mobiles
What you're describing here is Windows 8. They realized they took it too far, and took it down a notch with Windows 10. But it's still far from..."cured"...from that affliction.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Trouble is, what they hit with a hammer to try and force it to be mobile hurt it as a desktop OS
OriginalGriff wrote:
What they should have done is taken a deep breath and designed a new OS for mobile,
Or, if they'd just done a "responsive" UI that knew you were running a desktop and didn't want the Mobile features then that even would've helped a lot. However, I believe they wanted to force people to the new UX because they knew there would be people who would never change and that would force them to to do more work in perpetuity. Also, they know, "Hey, if we anger most of the people most of the time, there will still be some of the people who aren't angered. And, not all of the people are angered all the time." It's a win! :~
Well, maybe. But what they ended up with is a mobile OS that is too big, too slow, too greedy: the Wookie tab is dual boot Win 10 & Android. The whole Android OS and data partition is 5GB - Win 10 alone is 20GB and runs noticeably slower than Android on the same hardware. Bear in mind that Android will run happily in 1 GB of RAM and Win 10 ... well let's be charitable and say it will walk in 1 GB ... And that's the whole problem: it's not a desktop OS any more, but it's not a mobile OS either. I'm not sure what it is, but that's probably a lot of why most users just don't like it. If it can't decide what it wants to be, how are users supposed to to? :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote:
MS decided that they wanted the mobile market, so they produced a "mobile friendly" OS - and made it the only version available for desktops and mobiles
What you're describing here is Windows 8. They realized they took it too far, and took it down a notch with Windows 10. But it's still far from..."cured"...from that affliction.
No, I don't think they did. They got another hammer, and nailed some of the Win 7 bits back on rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Well, maybe. But what they ended up with is a mobile OS that is too big, too slow, too greedy: the Wookie tab is dual boot Win 10 & Android. The whole Android OS and data partition is 5GB - Win 10 alone is 20GB and runs noticeably slower than Android on the same hardware. Bear in mind that Android will run happily in 1 GB of RAM and Win 10 ... well let's be charitable and say it will walk in 1 GB ... And that's the whole problem: it's not a desktop OS any more, but it's not a mobile OS either. I'm not sure what it is, but that's probably a lot of why most users just don't like it. If it can't decide what it wants to be, how are users supposed to to? :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Cornelius Henning wrote:
Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017,
And Xamarin, to boot! :cool: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Cornelius Henning wrote:
will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority
:thumbsup: Count me in. I've been on 10 for almost 2 years and consider it to be the best OS I've used to date. (now if I could just get a grip on the unattended restarts) I've made a great career using MS technologies! I may complain occasionally, but acknowledge that overall these technologies (for the most part) have improved over the years while costing less or even becoming free.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP
This imho is all due to the number of devs using MS/Windows over other OS's...unless I'm to assume that the 'others' are so good and problem free that there's nothing to complain about. At any rate, it would make a great CP survey...primary OS for development? I'd predict Windows at 85% or so but I'm just guessing. :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Windows is still only a consumer-grade operating system. The best operating system is OpenVMS -- but I don't use it for email and Web browsing.
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With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Some people here whine so much I think they are fermenting.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Windows is still only a consumer-grade operating system. The best operating system is OpenVMS -- but I don't use it for email and Web browsing.
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Some people here whine so much I think they are fermenting.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Cornelius Henning wrote:
I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
And which religion would that belief represent? MS bashing has been the standard for every hobbyist since the early nineties, because it made them look knowledgable. I'd guess they continued to do so in the professional career.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system!
I did! Doesn't mean I won't be touching Windows no more, on the contrary.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there?
The "best" for whom, under what conditions? If I owned a large company, then Windows would be the only logical choise, regardless of my personal preferences. Though the Commodore Amiga is still the superiour machine, in both hard- and software, I do realize that most bussiness (=mostly MS related) software won't be compatible. If you want to complain about something MS, then complain about the managers who fail to adhere to the UxGuide. The reason Windows comes without a manual (contrary to DOS) is that it is intuitive, and has some COMMON CONTROLS. Things that are recognizable as buttons (which means the user knows where to click) and listboxes (which work the same in every app!). Nowadays you have to hover your mouse over the entire screen, looking for hidden buttons and pop-ins/overs/outs. For most of the complaining people: you'd whish you'd be half a MS. Go look at your stocks and realize you're not. --edit A pinot noire with gruyere please :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
the Commodore Amiga is still the superiour machine, in both hard- and software,
I feel a little sick by this fanboi propaganda, otherwise we could have a real nerd war now. The Amiga is only so good because it's a true Atari and the software really sucked. The Atari ST's spartan and ugly TOS/GEM combination would have helped a lot. The ST was a true Commodore, after all.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
the Commodore Amiga is still the superiour machine, in both hard- and software,
I feel a little sick by this fanboi propaganda, otherwise we could have a real nerd war now. The Amiga is only so good because it's a true Atari and the software really sucked. The Atari ST's spartan and ugly TOS/GEM combination would have helped a lot. The ST was a true Commodore, after all.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.CDP1802 wrote:
The Amiga is only so good because it's a true Atari
Ehr, no, even the competitor that Atari launched to rival the Amiga never caught on. You can call it propaganda, but we are talking about a full-color, windowed multitasking environment. In less than half a megabyte. You're probably downloading more JavaScript than that if you visit this site :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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Cornelius Henning wrote:
Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017,
And Xamarin, to boot! :cool: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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CDP1802 wrote:
The Amiga is only so good because it's a true Atari
Ehr, no, even the competitor that Atari launched to rival the Amiga never caught on. You can call it propaganda, but we are talking about a full-color, windowed multitasking environment. In less than half a megabyte. You're probably downloading more JavaScript than that if you visit this site :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Ehr, yes. Look at this.[^] This man designed the chipsets of the early Atari consoles and 8 bit computers. And look what he later called his own company and what chipset he disigned then. So I must welcome you to the Atari fanbois after all that time. :-) The real irony is that the Atari ST, which actually was released before the Amiga and caught on a lot better in Europe, was designed and sold by the guys who designed the Commodore 64. Commodore had fired their boss, Jack Tramiel, who simply bought himself Atari and then sold their successor to the C64 under that name. The Atari fanbois were defending their Commodore, the Commodore fanbois were fighting for their Atari. It can't get any more silly, but deeply religious fanbois (no matter of what, exactly) will never get it.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Cornelius Henning wrote:
will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority
:thumbsup: Count me in. I've been on 10 for almost 2 years and consider it to be the best OS I've used to date. (now if I could just get a grip on the unattended restarts) I've made a great career using MS technologies! I may complain occasionally, but acknowledge that overall these technologies (for the most part) have improved over the years while costing less or even becoming free.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP
This imho is all due to the number of devs using MS/Windows over other OS's...unless I'm to assume that the 'others' are so good and problem free that there's nothing to complain about. At any rate, it would make a great CP survey...primary OS for development? I'd predict Windows at 85% or so but I'm just guessing. :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
kmoorevs wrote:
I've made a great career using MS technologies! I may complain occasionally, but acknowledge that overall these technologies (for the most part) have improved over the years while costing less or even becoming free.
:thumbsup: Me too! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
To be pedantic what's called "microsoft windows" is not an OS, the package delivered as "microsoft windows" (3.1 .. 10) is an OS with: a built-in window manager and internet browser to name just a couple of non OS items. Which is OK, if you could choose to replace or use another similar item - but with windows you cant. (not easily). One of the advantages of unix and it's offspring is that it is just an OS with implementation dependant hardware drivers (and the ability to add more necessary hardware drivers.) Don't like the look of the windows: you can choose another (and most are independently very configurable to very different looks, even how the mouse works and when windowed apps become active...), don't like a particular internet browser: you can choose another without having baggage of something you are never going to use built in and loaded into memory. don't like the console (shell) ..., don't like the control panel ... It would be really nice if ms gave us an os without the non-os items so tightly bolted in. Instead they are in fact going the opposite direction: now they are forcing the choice of browser so that it's difficult (and they are hinting soon to be impossible) to choose another even if you can live with non used crap loaded up. How long before they take away the old style windows mode and force it to be full time in that ugly metro (or whatever it's going to be called tomorrow) mode? (Don't doubt me, that will come.) windows is a good os, the non-alterable crap bolted on that's the killer. Nobody complains say linux is ugly (difficult yes, but not ugly) because the interface, the look, the way it acts is full configurable to how you want it. All an OS is and should be is a callable software interface to the hardware.
Sin tack the any key okay
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Ehr, yes. Look at this.[^] This man designed the chipsets of the early Atari consoles and 8 bit computers. And look what he later called his own company and what chipset he disigned then. So I must welcome you to the Atari fanbois after all that time. :-) The real irony is that the Atari ST, which actually was released before the Amiga and caught on a lot better in Europe, was designed and sold by the guys who designed the Commodore 64. Commodore had fired their boss, Jack Tramiel, who simply bought himself Atari and then sold their successor to the C64 under that name. The Atari fanbois were defending their Commodore, the Commodore fanbois were fighting for their Atari. It can't get any more silly, but deeply religious fanbois (no matter of what, exactly) will never get it.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The 16 bit Amiga was more popular than the Atari ST.
As a game console, yes. Not if you had work to do.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Then machines that had trouble showing 16 colors took over.
That really felt like a huge step back into the stone age.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
No, I don't think they did. They got another hammer, and nailed some of the Win 7 bits back on rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
That is the root point. I am aware that is impossible to satisfy every people, but hey... at least read the comments, analyze them as much objective as you can and do the best out of them. That would spare them and us (users) a lot of problems.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
