What book would you recommend to learn C# from 0?
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:thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:++
Vince Remember the dead, fight for the living
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C# from 0, when you know C++? You really know more than you need to know in one sense. Think of C++, but a lot of the differentiation is removed. C++ made simple. For example, you don't separate namespaces by '::', but simply with a '.' No difference between ref for value and pointer ('.' vs. '->') as everything is an object and it's always a pointer so, as a short-cut, it's always '.'. The IJW nearly seamless slipping between managed and unmanaged is not so seamless (should you ever need to do it). If you use C++.NET, then your most of the way there. Really, nearly everything's the same. Now there's more to it than that, but MS was targeting the VB.NET users when the built this so they dumbed it down simplified it. VB.NET lived on, anyway. Others might, or rather, are likely to disagree with the above.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I'd disagree to an extent: they ripped C++ to bits when they first created C# and got rid of a lot of the "dangerous" stuff - memory leak causes and so on - to create a simpler language that was faster to develop with than native C++ as a result. Since then, they have been layering on more complexity - some of it useful and justified, some of it badly abused. It's perhaps getting to the point where C# needs to be ripped apart and the same exercise done again (.NET Core would have been a good opportunity to do this)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I'd disagree to an extent: they ripped C++ to bits when they first created C# and got rid of a lot of the "dangerous" stuff - memory leak causes and so on - to create a simpler language that was faster to develop with than native C++ as a result. Since then, they have been layering on more complexity - some of it useful and justified, some of it badly abused. It's perhaps getting to the point where C# needs to be ripped apart and the same exercise done again (.NET Core would have been a good opportunity to do this)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
I was just drawing gross picture => JM said she was starting from '0'; with a C++ background that's really not the case. And if she uses C++.NET, even less so the case. My real complaints about C# were twofold: 1) MS help seemed to emphasize C# at the expense of C++. Perhaps this has changed? 2) It hides from the user the subtle differences, such as between a namespace vs. class hierarchy. One could argue - so what? As as minimalist, however, I like to know what's what. Fortunately, I've not had a project where any performance difference was a concern. Would you, in your partial disagreement, agree that the syntax, at the basic level, is such that it's almost automatic that one knows C# if one know C++ (new layers of convolution notwithstanding)?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I'd disagree to an extent: they ripped C++ to bits when they first created C# and got rid of a lot of the "dangerous" stuff - memory leak causes and so on - to create a simpler language that was faster to develop with than native C++ as a result. Since then, they have been layering on more complexity - some of it useful and justified, some of it badly abused. It's perhaps getting to the point where C# needs to be ripped apart and the same exercise done again (.NET Core would have been a good opportunity to do this)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
At least there's nothing you're forced to use. You can keep coding using a .NET 2.0 style even though you're developing against the latest library, and the latest language features are at your disposal--which you can choose to ignore. The way it's once been described to me is that it's all "syntactic sugar". Or am I misinterpreting what you mean?
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I was just drawing gross picture => JM said she was starting from '0'; with a C++ background that's really not the case. And if she uses C++.NET, even less so the case. My real complaints about C# were twofold: 1) MS help seemed to emphasize C# at the expense of C++. Perhaps this has changed? 2) It hides from the user the subtle differences, such as between a namespace vs. class hierarchy. One could argue - so what? As as minimalist, however, I like to know what's what. Fortunately, I've not had a project where any performance difference was a concern. Would you, in your partial disagreement, agree that the syntax, at the basic level, is such that it's almost automatic that one knows C# if one know C++ (new layers of convolution notwithstanding)?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Would you, in your partial disagreement, agree that the syntax, at the basic level, is such that it's almost automatic that one knows C# if one know C++ (new layers of convolution notwithstanding)?
That's a difficult one, because moving from C++ to C# isn't necessarily as easy as you think it will be just by looking at the syntax. I came up the COBOL -> FORTRAN -> Pascal -> Assembler => C -> C++ -> C# route, and it's the superficial similarities that throw you off: you expect to need pointers and they aren't there. Same for globals, and references, and all the little nuances that you get used to in C++. So you end up trying to use C# as a "retarded brother" to C++ instead of a separate language in it's own right that shares some syntax with C++. You are actually better off forgetting C++ completely when you learn C# I think.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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At least there's nothing you're forced to use. You can keep coding using a .NET 2.0 style even though you're developing against the latest library, and the latest language features are at your disposal--which you can choose to ignore. The way it's once been described to me is that it's all "syntactic sugar". Or am I misinterpreting what you mean?
Yes you can - but not everyone else will, so you get a lot of lazy coders using
varall the time for example and to hell with the poor sod who has to maintain it in six months time!Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Hi all, Coming from Visual C++. I'll have a little bit of time in a while and I'd love learning C#... Which book would you recommend me? Thank you! :thumbsup:
Always read the spec. Anything else is wrong.
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Always read the spec. Anything else is wrong.
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Hi all, Coming from Visual C++. I'll have a little bit of time in a while and I'd love learning C#... Which book would you recommend me? Thank you! :thumbsup:
.NET Book Zero[^], without a doubt! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Yes you can - but not everyone else will, so you get a lot of lazy coders using
varall the time for example and to hell with the poor sod who has to maintain it in six months time!Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
:) Of all the useless things that have been added to the language over the years, var isn't one of them. I've long been opposed to var myself, but these days, when I see I've used var in some of my older code, it generally means the exact type didn't matter to me back then, and it still shouldn't matter to me today. Some will abuse it for sure. But it's got its use.
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.NET Book Zero[^], without a doubt! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
.NET Book Zero[^], without a doubt!
Agree 100%! Also, get LINQPad (free at LINQPad - The .NET Programmer's Playground[^]) It's a fantastic tool for writing snippets or entire programs. Great for use with dotNet Book Zero too.
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:) Of all the useless things that have been added to the language over the years, var isn't one of them. I've long been opposed to var myself, but these days, when I see I've used var in some of my older code, it generally means the exact type didn't matter to me back then, and it still shouldn't matter to me today. Some will abuse it for sure. But it's got its use.
It has it's uses - you can;t do Linq without it - but when you get lazy f'wits using it on every variable definition it's a PITA for maintenance:
var i = 666;
Is just lazy.
var p = ComplicatedFunctionInAnotherClass(long, list, of, parameters);
Is lazy, stupid, and uncaring of maintenance or the poor sod who will have to do it.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Hi all, Coming from Visual C++. I'll have a little bit of time in a while and I'd love learning C#... Which book would you recommend me? Thank you! :thumbsup:
Programming in the key of C# by Charles Petzold is excellent, especially when coming from older C-family languages
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It has it's uses - you can;t do Linq without it - but when you get lazy f'wits using it on every variable definition it's a PITA for maintenance:
var i = 666;
Is just lazy.
var p = ComplicatedFunctionInAnotherClass(long, list, of, parameters);
Is lazy, stupid, and uncaring of maintenance or the poor sod who will have to do it.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
t has it's uses - you can;t do Linq without it
Linq is itself too often used/abused when often it's really not necessary at all, it's backward syntax order is a PITA for those of us that work in multiple languages and later need to unravel some newbies 'I can do it all in one line' compound statements. I'd not loose a second sleep if it were removed entirely.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
t has it's uses - you can;t do Linq without it
Linq is itself too often used/abused when often it's really not necessary at all, it's backward syntax order is a PITA for those of us that work in multiple languages and later need to unravel some newbies 'I can do it all in one line' compound statements. I'd not loose a second sleep if it were removed entirely.
signature upgrading ... please wait.
I completely agree on the syntax - that's why I use the methods instead - but Linq does have some advantages over the "loads of loops" approach! :-D
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Hi all, Coming from Visual C++. I'll have a little bit of time in a while and I'd love learning C#... Which book would you recommend me? Thank you! :thumbsup:
I know this is not exactly an answer to your question, but I would warmly recommend the following: 1) Job interview questions as by far the best source of condensed information about very handy C# features. A 100 questions interview is worth 314 pages in a book. 2) F..k Occam's razor. Complicate! Go to Stack Exchange and check three solutions to your problem, even if you know how to solve it. It helps build your skills beyond trivial. 3) Twitter for practicing code optimization.
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Can't recommend that book enough.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help end the violence EAT BACON
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Hi all, Coming from Visual C++. I'll have a little bit of time in a while and I'd love learning C#... Which book would you recommend me? Thank you! :thumbsup:
If you want something that starts at the core of C# and - to a degree - programming, I'll have to recommend Rob Miles' Yellow Book[^]. It certainly helped me learn C# quite thoroughly, although I'll have to admit that he was one of my lecturers when I attended university.
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I'd disagree to an extent: they ripped C++ to bits when they first created C# and got rid of a lot of the "dangerous" stuff - memory leak causes and so on - to create a simpler language that was faster to develop with than native C++ as a result. Since then, they have been layering on more complexity - some of it useful and justified, some of it badly abused. It's perhaps getting to the point where C# needs to be ripped apart and the same exercise done again (.NET Core would have been a good opportunity to do this)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
C# needs to be ripped apart and the same exercise done again
Couldn't agree more. It's getting so bloated and ugly that it's starting to look like C++.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
