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  4. Best appropriation of a Charlie Brown cartoon ever

Best appropriation of a Charlie Brown cartoon ever

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  • L Lost User

    RJOberg wrote:

    those who need it

    Here is the rub. Who defines who "needs" it? Ask the far left and they'll say "everybody who asks". Ask the far right and they'll say "only the truly infirmed". In the US alone there are 10's of millions of people in between those 2 extremes.

    R Offline
    R Offline
    RJOberg
    wrote on last edited by
    #30

    Yeah, I know what you're saying and I don't have a good answer. My thought is a sliding scale, if you can do something, you should. Maybe that is the Scandinavian heritage, dunno. Those who are truly infirmed, of course. The problem is there are entire law practices set up to prove everyone who claims to be are in fact infirm. I believe the goal of these programs should be to get everyone off of said support and aid. Give them training and help them set realistic expectations. Unfortunately social media tends to reinforce the idea that everyone needs a new car, fancy phone, big tv, etc. So people see the options as "hard" legal work and modest comfort or "easy" criminal work and luxury?

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    • M Munchies_Matt

      Nelek wrote:

      Would you please really read carefully what I have written? I have nowhere said that, but I am against your "all rich are nice and good people"

      Oh the irony! :)

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      Nelek
      wrote on last edited by
      #31

      Munchies_Matt wrote:

      Nelek wrote:

      Would you please really read carefully what I have written? I have nowhere said that, but I am against your "all rich are nice and good people"

      If you want to quote me... then quote the full sentence please

      Nelek wrote:

      Would you please really read carefully what I have written? I have nowhere said that, but I am against your "all rich are nice and good people" because this is as wrong as the other way around.

      Because...

      Munchies_Matt wrote:

      but you cant equate criminality with wealth, that is utterly wrong and very ignorant.

      You can't equate wealth with being a good person neither.

      Slacker007 wrote:

      don't be so lame in your thinking, and stop generalizing the rich.

      Nelek wrote:

      There are "good" and "bad" persons in every social / economic status. ... I have no problem with rich people who have worked hard or had luck in life or both.

      So... No, I am not generalizing. No, I am not equating wealthy with criminality. No, I have nothing against rich people. But yes... telling that no rich person has done something censurable is as wrong as telling that every rich people have done it. And that's my point the full time, and that's what looks like you are not understanding.

      M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

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      • Z ZurdoDev

        Then where is the money going?

        There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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        ZurdoDev
        wrote on last edited by
        #32

        He apparently didn't like the simple question. Too hard?

        There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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        • S Slacker007

          Those that are not rich are getting tax breaks too, not just the rich. Read the bill.

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          Jorgen Andersson
          wrote on last edited by
          #33

          Have you read it?

          Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

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          • Z ZurdoDev

            He apparently didn't like the simple question. Too hard?

            There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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            A_Griffin
            wrote on last edited by
            #34

            Not at all – but I’m not interested in having an argument about it. As I said to MM before – do your own friggin’ research. But really, the reason is that it’s a waste of time. I’m happy enough to come on here and spout my opinions for fun, but I’m not interested in trying to convince you – because I won’t. Your mind is already made up, and it won’t matter what I say. I have never – ever- seen anyone (including me!) change their mind about anything as a result of an online discussion anywhere (or argument!) So… you carry on believing what you want, and I’ll carry on as I do. Meanwhile I’m off for a couple of days for work reasons, so won’t be posting anything (you’ll be relieved to hear.) ving said all that. A lot goes to tax havens. Some of it goes to good causes (eg Gates Foundation). Some of it even goes to creating jobs - but jobs would be created anyway, one way or another. Mega-rich individuals are not a necessary condition for job creation. Some rich people are very nice people. That doesn’t alter the fact that they shouldn’t be that rich – no one should. And by “that rich” I mean billionaires. As I said, I have no problem with the odd million or two, but no-one has a morally legitimate claim to billions. Anyway – I have a train to catch.

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            • N Nelek

              Munchies_Matt wrote:

              Nelek wrote:

              Would you please really read carefully what I have written? I have nowhere said that, but I am against your "all rich are nice and good people"

              If you want to quote me... then quote the full sentence please

              Nelek wrote:

              Would you please really read carefully what I have written? I have nowhere said that, but I am against your "all rich are nice and good people" because this is as wrong as the other way around.

              Because...

              Munchies_Matt wrote:

              but you cant equate criminality with wealth, that is utterly wrong and very ignorant.

              You can't equate wealth with being a good person neither.

              Slacker007 wrote:

              don't be so lame in your thinking, and stop generalizing the rich.

              Nelek wrote:

              There are "good" and "bad" persons in every social / economic status. ... I have no problem with rich people who have worked hard or had luck in life or both.

              So... No, I am not generalizing. No, I am not equating wealthy with criminality. No, I have nothing against rich people. But yes... telling that no rich person has done something censurable is as wrong as telling that every rich people have done it. And that's my point the full time, and that's what looks like you are not understanding.

              M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

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              Munchies_Matt
              wrote on last edited by
              #35

              And he doesnt get the irony. :)

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              • J Jorgen Andersson

                Have you read it?

                Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

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                Slacker007
                wrote on last edited by
                #36

                Yes, actually. I spent about an hour reading it. Obviously, not the entire bill but enough to know that most of the people posting on this thread are full of shit, like usual.

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                • A A_Griffin

                  Not at all – but I’m not interested in having an argument about it. As I said to MM before – do your own friggin’ research. But really, the reason is that it’s a waste of time. I’m happy enough to come on here and spout my opinions for fun, but I’m not interested in trying to convince you – because I won’t. Your mind is already made up, and it won’t matter what I say. I have never – ever- seen anyone (including me!) change their mind about anything as a result of an online discussion anywhere (or argument!) So… you carry on believing what you want, and I’ll carry on as I do. Meanwhile I’m off for a couple of days for work reasons, so won’t be posting anything (you’ll be relieved to hear.) ving said all that. A lot goes to tax havens. Some of it goes to good causes (eg Gates Foundation). Some of it even goes to creating jobs - but jobs would be created anyway, one way or another. Mega-rich individuals are not a necessary condition for job creation. Some rich people are very nice people. That doesn’t alter the fact that they shouldn’t be that rich – no one should. And by “that rich” I mean billionaires. As I said, I have no problem with the odd million or two, but no-one has a morally legitimate claim to billions. Anyway – I have a train to catch.

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                  ZurdoDev
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #37

                  A_Griffin wrote:

                  Not at all – but I’m not interested in having an argument about it. As I said to MM before – do your own friggin’ research. But really, the reason is that it’s a waste of time. I’m happy enough to come on here and spout my opinions for fun, but I’m not interested in trying to convince you – because I won’t. Your mind is already made up, and it won’t matter what I say. I have never – ever- seen anyone (including me!) change their mind about anything as a result of an online discussion anywhere (or argument!) So… you carry on believing what you want, and I’ll carry on as I do. Meanwhile I’m off for a couple of days for work reasons, so won’t be posting anything (you’ll be relieved to hear.)

                  Boy do you prejudge big time!! :wtf: I asked a simple question. Nothing implied or said. It was an honest question. The money has to be somewhere. The only way to keep their riches from affecting others is by hiding it under a mattress, which none of them do (I don't think.)

                  A_Griffin wrote:

                  but no-one has a morally legitimate claim to billions.

                  Why not? So what would you do to "fix" this? Would you somehow prevent people from earning a billion dollars? Would you change the economic model to make it impossible? These are not baiting questions. I genuinely am interested in why you believe what you believe. I know that puts in my rare company here, but it is true. And I agree, neither of us will likely change our opinions but I do like to learn about why people believe things differently than me. I find that interesting.

                  There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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                  • M Munchies_Matt

                    And he doesnt get the irony. :)

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                    Nelek
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #38

                    No, I don't get it. I am not english native. Would you mind to explain it?

                    M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

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                    • N Nelek

                      No, I don't get it. I am not english native. Would you mind to explain it?

                      M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

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                      Munchies_Matt
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #39

                      You accused me of misrepresenting what you said, then accused me of saying "all rich are nice and good people" when I said no such thing. :)

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                      • M Munchies_Matt

                        You accused me of misrepresenting what you said, then accused me of saying "all rich are nice and good people" when I said no such thing. :)

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                        Nelek
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #40

                        Well... arguing against "some rich people are bad people" can be confused with defending the opinion "all rich people are good people" realtively easy. Don't you think? If that's not what you were saying, then the other possibility is "some rich people are nice and good people" which already was included in my arguments. If you meant the second option... then I don't really understand why you started arguing against what I said.

                        M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

                        M 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • N Nelek

                          Well... arguing against "some rich people are bad people" can be confused with defending the opinion "all rich people are good people" realtively easy. Don't you think? If that's not what you were saying, then the other possibility is "some rich people are nice and good people" which already was included in my arguments. If you meant the second option... then I don't really understand why you started arguing against what I said.

                          M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

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                          Munchies_Matt
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #41

                          Look, you said " xxx wrote: Nobody is poor because someone else is rich. Tell that to the people that has lost rent insurances, fonds and other savings, just because a rich wanted to be richer and scammed them all. Or people working their asses off to see how the boss takes profit and get self-made boni while all the rest don't get a sh*t." Which is ranting socialist crap.

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                          • S Slacker007

                            Those that are not rich are getting tax breaks too, not just the rich. Read the bill.

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                            jschell
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #42

                            Slacker007 wrote:

                            Those that are not rich are getting tax breaks too, not just the rich. Read the bil

                            Perhaps what I said wasn't clear. So I will re-phrase it to make it clear. "Which however doesn't really address the claims that giving tax breaks specifically to the rich will provide a benefit to those that are not [rich]" And I am guessing you haven't read the tax bill either since the most recent one was only available to congress as physical photo copy (with hand written modifications.) Not to mention of course that even that was not available when I posted this.

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                            • K kmoorevs

                              Slacker007 wrote:

                              Read the bill.

                              OK, here's 429 pages...you have 2 hours to read it before voting...better hurry! :laugh: tps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/02/us/politics/document-Read-the-G-O-P-Tax-Bill.html[^]

                              "Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse

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                              jschell
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #43

                              kmoorevs wrote:

                              OK, here's 429 pages...you have 2 hours to read it before voting...better hurry

                              Just noting that was the original bill and not what they actually voted on.

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                              • N NotYourAverageGuy

                                You are a moron. Nobody is poor because someone else is rich. Rich people aren't thieves because they are rich, well, except maybe for Soros and his ilk. You want a 'fair' personal tax plan? Fine, every single man, woman, and child pays the exact same amount tax for every day they are alive with the only exceptions being those that are truly disabled and unable to work (physically or mentally handicapped). No business or corporate taxation whatsoever as business have no 'vote' (taxation without representation). That is a 'fair' tax plan. Maybe then, people will pay attention to the real problem, spending. Personally I think income tax is a terrible concept. Taxing should be done on consumption/sales only with also import taxation for the purpose of enforcing trade and market leveling. This is all typical envy and jealousy, you're not 'rich', therefore you hate them and want their success, 'luck', and hard work to pay your own way.

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                                jschell
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #44

                                NotYourAverageGuy wrote:

                                No business or corporate taxation whatsoever as business have no 'vote' (taxation without representation).

                                With of course the stipulation that businesses, no business of any kind, has any right to involve themselves in politics or social issues of any kind. So no donations to PACs, no lobbying, no contributions to 'education' organizations with an agenda, no funding of 'documentaries' with an agenda, etc.

                                NotYourAverageGuy wrote:

                                Taxing should be done on consumption/sales only with also import taxation for the purpose of enforcing trade and market leveling.

                                What happens if the sale is in another country?

                                NotYourAverageGuy wrote:

                                This is all typical envy and jealousy, you're not 'rich', therefore you hate them and want their success, 'luck', and hard work to pay your own way

                                That ignores history. First of course the rich in the US used to pay a much higher tax and yet they still managed to be rich. Second of course is that history, far as I know in every case, demonstrates that income inequality is always resolved by the rich having all of their assets taken away and often with them being killed in the process. That doesn't make the poor better off and civil unrest can extend for decades making the poor actually worse off. The poor and I suspect the rich also would claim that neither want that. Third the legal system of this country and others is based on the concept that money can be used to punish those that misbehave rather than putting them in jail. The fine is intended as a deterrent to prevent the behavior again. So if they double park or kill an endangered species the fine is supposed to prevent them from doing it again. And $100 for someone that makes $1600 a month before taxes is significant but for someone that makes 30 million is not. So that is not "fair".

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                                • M Munchies_Matt

                                  What a pile of crap. How does a 'rich person' 'scam poor people out of rent, funds, and insurance'? There are plenty of scammers out there, they are called criminals, some are in prison already, many will be soon. Some make a living, just, others are more successful, but you cant equate criminality with wealth, that is utterly wrong and very ignorant.

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                                  jschell
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #45

                                  Munchies_Matt wrote:

                                  How does a 'rich person' 'scam poor people out of rent, funds, and insurance'?

                                  I can provide a very specific example. I lived in a town where a landowner owned and rented apartments. They were not 'good' apartments and they were in a town that has always had a high occupancy rate and still does. So there were no realistic options. For years when anyone moved out they charged a "curtain cleaning fee". So if you lived there for 6 months they claimed that the curtains needed to be cleaned. The funds however were never used to clean curtains. That wasn't hyperbole as the city investigated and found that to be the case. I believe I remember another case where the damage deposit at one apartment complex was never returned. The damage deposit is intended as a surety that the occupant will not damage in the apartment in ways that do not meet standard use. So knocking down a wall counts but normal wear and tear on the carpet does not. The apartment owners found a way to always claim damage.

                                  Munchies_Matt wrote:

                                  There are plenty of scammers out there, they are called criminals, some are in prison already,

                                  The first case was not "criminal" rather it was a violation of civil law regarding landlord/tenant regulations. As for the second case I don't believe there was anything prevent it except perhaps standard understanding of what a 'damage' deposit was.

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                                  • A A_Griffin

                                    Is it actually possible for you to have a conversation without resorting to being rude? Come back when you can.

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                                    jschell
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #46

                                    A_Griffin wrote:

                                    Is it actually possible for you to have a conversation without resorting to being rude?

                                    Seems like you have been around long enough and have posted enough to know the answer to that when conversing with Munchies_Matt.

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                                    • A A_Griffin

                                      Not at all – but I’m not interested in having an argument about it. As I said to MM before – do your own friggin’ research. But really, the reason is that it’s a waste of time. I’m happy enough to come on here and spout my opinions for fun, but I’m not interested in trying to convince you – because I won’t. Your mind is already made up, and it won’t matter what I say. I have never – ever- seen anyone (including me!) change their mind about anything as a result of an online discussion anywhere (or argument!) So… you carry on believing what you want, and I’ll carry on as I do. Meanwhile I’m off for a couple of days for work reasons, so won’t be posting anything (you’ll be relieved to hear.) ving said all that. A lot goes to tax havens. Some of it goes to good causes (eg Gates Foundation). Some of it even goes to creating jobs - but jobs would be created anyway, one way or another. Mega-rich individuals are not a necessary condition for job creation. Some rich people are very nice people. That doesn’t alter the fact that they shouldn’t be that rich – no one should. And by “that rich” I mean billionaires. As I said, I have no problem with the odd million or two, but no-one has a morally legitimate claim to billions. Anyway – I have a train to catch.

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                                      jschell
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #47

                                      A_Griffin wrote:

                                      I have never – ever- seen anyone (including me!) change their mind about anything as a result of an online discussion anywhere (or argument!)

                                      I have certainly changed my view several times when presented with evidence. To be fair the last two cases I can recall were because I was researching my point to refute someone else and I came up with reasonable evidence that demonstrated to me that my point was wrong. I believe that I convinced one or two others that their view was wrong (over a very long time.)

                                      A_Griffin wrote:

                                      I mean billionaires. As I said, I have no problem with the odd million or two, but no-one has a morally legitimate claim to billions.

                                      I will note that I accept the legitimacy of the argument that no one is 1000x or 1000000x 'better' (in the sense that they are not 'working' that much more) than someone else and that it is not realistically possible for them to be that way. Where it gets fuzzy after that is how it then becomes "fair" to deny their luck. I have always worn glasses all my life and I know people who not only have good vision but who in fact have had better than normal vision all of their life. While my vision continues to deteriorate. Is that fair? If we must correct for monetary luck shouldn't there be a correction for physical luck as well?

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                                      • J jschell

                                        Slacker007 wrote:

                                        Those that are not rich are getting tax breaks too, not just the rich. Read the bil

                                        Perhaps what I said wasn't clear. So I will re-phrase it to make it clear. "Which however doesn't really address the claims that giving tax breaks specifically to the rich will provide a benefit to those that are not [rich]" And I am guessing you haven't read the tax bill either since the most recent one was only available to congress as physical photo copy (with hand written modifications.) Not to mention of course that even that was not available when I posted this.

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                                        Slacker007
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #48

                                        This is what I read, but it was dated 11/2. Their could be a more updated version somewhere. Republican Tax Plan: Read the Full Bill | Fortune[^]

                                        jschell wrote:

                                        Not to mention of course that even that was not available when I posted this.

                                        :confused:

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                                        • Z ZurdoDev

                                          A_Griffin wrote:

                                          Not at all – but I’m not interested in having an argument about it. As I said to MM before – do your own friggin’ research. But really, the reason is that it’s a waste of time. I’m happy enough to come on here and spout my opinions for fun, but I’m not interested in trying to convince you – because I won’t. Your mind is already made up, and it won’t matter what I say. I have never – ever- seen anyone (including me!) change their mind about anything as a result of an online discussion anywhere (or argument!) So… you carry on believing what you want, and I’ll carry on as I do. Meanwhile I’m off for a couple of days for work reasons, so won’t be posting anything (you’ll be relieved to hear.)

                                          Boy do you prejudge big time!! :wtf: I asked a simple question. Nothing implied or said. It was an honest question. The money has to be somewhere. The only way to keep their riches from affecting others is by hiding it under a mattress, which none of them do (I don't think.)

                                          A_Griffin wrote:

                                          but no-one has a morally legitimate claim to billions.

                                          Why not? So what would you do to "fix" this? Would you somehow prevent people from earning a billion dollars? Would you change the economic model to make it impossible? These are not baiting questions. I genuinely am interested in why you believe what you believe. I know that puts in my rare company here, but it is true. And I agree, neither of us will likely change our opinions but I do like to learn about why people believe things differently than me. I find that interesting.

                                          There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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                                          A_Griffin
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #49

                                          Quote:

                                          Why not? So what would you do to "fix" this? Would you somehow prevent people from earning a billion dollars? Would you change the economic model to make it impossible?

                                          Well, I am not sure it can be “fixed”. Like most socio-political questions, nothing will change until enough people want it to. All I’d like to see, as a start, is more and more people finding it unacceptable for anyone to be a billionaire – or even a multi-millionaire, above maybe a few million. (Let’s be generous and say 10.) Until such a time, tinkering with the rules won’t make a lot of difference. Rules can always be got round – especially when most people admire those who do it, and wish it were them. Sorry, but I do not admire George Soros, say. He made his billions by buying and selling other people’s money. I mean, seriously, wtf? For that – for making rich people even richer - he is rewarded with billions. Most billionaires are in the same boat – however many millions of product X they may have sold, their net worth of billions has accrued through investments made by their company. And anyway, they couldn’t have sold all those millions without the help of everyone that works for them, right down to the office cleaner (else why would they have employed them?) yet they reward themselves with billions while the office cleaner is lucky to get a minimum wage. (Of course they can pay themselves a dividend – I am not advocating some pure form of communism – just something a little bit fairer, and just simply more humane. While they’re sunning themselves on their luxury yacht, their office cleaner is dying early because they can’t afford heating in their shitty flat.) Maybe one day we’ll find a way to embed our economic model within our social one in some way that works. The communists tried it (theoretically, anyway) but they went to an opposite extreme as bad the one they left behind. So now, of course, people use that as an excuse to shut off all talk of reform, as if one bad experiment is enough to prove that the status quo is the only workable solution. But having the economy so divorced from society and ethics – and the deregulation introduced by Reagan and Thatcher cemented the wall that keeps them separate – is morally repugnant. (Basically, deregulation said to the bankers and hedge fund managers etc “You can do what you want!” So guess what happened? They did what they wanted. Which was to make themselves extremely rich. Because that’s what society teaches us t

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