Uber self driving car kills woman
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KennethKennedy wrote:
By the time this technology makes it to the mainstream, all the bugs will be sorted
Really? How will they do that? How do you unit test the AI? How do you prove that your AI can deal with any circumstances a very complex world throws at it? Look at how miserably we fail at testing normal code made up of simple, limited functions. From where do you take the optimism that this will miraculously work for something as complex as an AI?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
CodeWraith wrote:
Really? How will they do that? How do you unit test the AI? How do you prove that your AI can deal with any circumstances a very complex world throws at it?
How do we do it with human drivers, my friend? :-\ We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
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Statistically, robots are already better drivers then humans. That is why the whole world talks about one casualty on the road while every year human drivers extinguish one Vietnam war of Americans. Understanding politics of fear, I'm afraid a lot of people will perish before we realize that it is better to have less people killed by robots, then demand perfection from machines while at the same time licensing 16 year old kids to drive after 20 hours of training.
Tomaž Štih wrote:
That is why the whole world talks about one casualty on the road while every year human drivers extinguish one Vietnam war of Americans.
Of course you are taking into account the disproportionate numbers of human drivers to robot drivers to arrive at such shocking statements, otherwise it could just as well be plain rhetorics. :-) My old cat was excellent at tracking moving objects and judging distances and speed. It also was arguably far more intelligent than any AI up to now. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to train the cat and give it a driver's license?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Now I want to see how they show why their little monster did what it did, how it will react in other situations and how to 'cure' it from its delusions. The AI fans always forget that even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him. How can they think to play better in the same league with x hours of training and 'testing'?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
Remember the American Mantra: "Guns People don't kill people, people cars kill people".
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I have been promising myself I'd retire for the last 3 years, this year I finish up in August and return to Oz.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
I have been promising myself I'd retire for the last 3 years, this year I finish up in August and return to Oz.
I can already hear a pub calling our names.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Now I want to see how they show why their little monster did what it did, how it will react in other situations and how to 'cure' it from its delusions. The AI fans always forget that even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him. How can they think to play better in the same league with x hours of training and 'testing'?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
CodeWraith wrote:
even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him
When that human driver happens to be a p***ed up 17 year old blasting out da G-funk at 110 dB whilst smoking a spliff, sending text messages and driving at faster-miles-per-hour past a school hoping to impress the girls, I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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OriginalGriff wrote:
And we know who the passenger was, don't we
MOM? Is that you? :~
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain -
Statistically, robots are already better drivers then humans. That is why the whole world talks about one casualty on the road while every year human drivers extinguish one Vietnam war of Americans. Understanding politics of fear, I'm afraid a lot of people will perish before we realize that it is better to have less people killed by robots, then demand perfection from machines while at the same time licensing 16 year old kids to drive after 20 hours of training.
Oh, you have those statistics? That would be an interesting read.
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CodeWraith wrote:
Really? How will they do that? How do you unit test the AI? How do you prove that your AI can deal with any circumstances a very complex world throws at it?
How do we do it with human drivers, my friend? :-\ We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
Tomaž Štih wrote:
We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
That's not true. At least around here they make sure that you are equipped with the abilities of a few hundred million years of evolution before they even let you near a car with a driving instructor. Sure beats training a thing that has no idea what it is doing - or why it is supposed to do it. Did they really have to teach you how to look around and make sense of what you see?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote:
even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him
When that human driver happens to be a p***ed up 17 year old blasting out da G-funk at 110 dB whilst smoking a spliff, sending text messages and driving at faster-miles-per-hour past a school hoping to impress the girls, I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
Nope: "Evolution in action". :-D
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CodeWraith wrote:
even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him
When that human driver happens to be a p***ed up 17 year old blasting out da G-funk at 110 dB whilst smoking a spliff, sending text messages and driving at faster-miles-per-hour past a school hoping to impress the girls, I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
Evolution usually works with trial and error... and there are a lot of darwin awarded people in the world. Pity is... they nowadays do find a partner in their wave length and increase the mess for one generation more
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I read that this was an erratic accident where even a human driver could not avoid the damages. And I also read that a 9 year old boy shot his 13 year old sister from backwards in head because she has taken his game console controller. :((
Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany
KarstenK wrote:
because she has taken his game console controller. :((
:omg: :omg: :wtf: :wtf: :doh: :doh: :doh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :(( :(( :(( X| X|
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
Evolution usually works with trial and error... and there are a lot of darwin awarded people in the world. Pity is... they nowadays do find a partner in their wave length and increase the mess for one generation more
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Evolution is certainly a slow process. Humans have evolved, at let's say a 20 year generation cycle, over countless millennia and aren't really up to much as yet. Fruit flies evolve exponentially quicker than humans (more than a generation a day) and they're still pretty crap at anything that doesn't involve eating fruit and being gross. Motorists have evolved over 5 or 6 generations and it's a wonder that there are any of them left to breed.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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While this event is obviously tragic will this spawn a new genre on Utube "Crazy driveless videos"?
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Oh, you have those statistics? That would be an interesting read.
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Tomaž Štih wrote:
That is why the whole world talks about one casualty on the road while every year human drivers extinguish one Vietnam war of Americans.
Of course you are taking into account the disproportionate numbers of human drivers to robot drivers to arrive at such shocking statements, otherwise it could just as well be plain rhetorics. :-) My old cat was excellent at tracking moving objects and judging distances and speed. It also was arguably far more intelligent than any AI up to now. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to train the cat and give it a driver's license?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
First studies in 2012, understandably, showed lower accident rates for human drivers. But latest (2017) results now shows lower accident rate (per million miles) for robots. :-\
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Tomaž Štih wrote:
We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
That's not true. At least around here they make sure that you are equipped with the abilities of a few hundred million years of evolution before they even let you near a car with a driving instructor. Sure beats training a thing that has no idea what it is doing - or why it is supposed to do it. Did they really have to teach you how to look around and make sense of what you see?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
That didn't help us with chess and go. In a battle between engineering and the evolution -- in short term my bet is on evolution, and in long term on engineering. Resistance is futile, robots will assimilate you AND your cat. :)
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They haven't released the video footage, but the reports say it was her fault - she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision, human or robotic driver: Tempe police chief: Uber 'likely' not at fault in fatal self-driving car crash - Business Insider[^] And you can be sure that there is more telemetry and recorded info in this accident than in any previous death-by-driving case, with the possible exception of Ayrton Senna...
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OriginalGriff wrote:
she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision
Common sense and experience would probably have saved her, i don't know how you guys drive but as soon as i see someone behaving like he would just jump on the road i drive slower and focus to react as fast as possible. Same logic as with a ball jumping on the road, expect a kid jumping after it and you'll save a live. And another thing, the car was obviously speeding :thumbsup: brilliant technology X|
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote:
she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision
Common sense and experience would probably have saved her, i don't know how you guys drive but as soon as i see someone behaving like he would just jump on the road i drive slower and focus to react as fast as possible. Same logic as with a ball jumping on the road, expect a kid jumping after it and you'll save a live. And another thing, the car was obviously speeding :thumbsup: brilliant technology X|
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}I haven't seen and video of it, so I can't comment - it's entirely possible she was engrossed in her phone and just turned sharply and walked out, I don't know. If the car was speeding - and not of the reports I've seen have mentioned it - I'd be surprised. Some cars have come with "up to the limit" cruise control for years so I suspect that Uber would have limited it to the posted limit. Heck, my GPS goes "bong, bong, bong" when I exceed a speed limit! :laugh:
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
This being a tragic event does not make the tech will never be a success. Several accidents happened in the early days of air transportation. Now it is the safest way to travel (still piloted by hoomans tough). The tech is in a primitive stage and will improve after such disasters. After all hoomans learn only when the disaster has struck.
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking.
