Uber self driving car kills woman
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CodeWraith wrote:
Really? How will they do that? How do you unit test the AI? How do you prove that your AI can deal with any circumstances a very complex world throws at it?
How do we do it with human drivers, my friend? :-\ We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
Tomaž Štih wrote:
We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
That's not true. At least around here they make sure that you are equipped with the abilities of a few hundred million years of evolution before they even let you near a car with a driving instructor. Sure beats training a thing that has no idea what it is doing - or why it is supposed to do it. Did they really have to teach you how to look around and make sense of what you see?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote:
even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him
When that human driver happens to be a p***ed up 17 year old blasting out da G-funk at 110 dB whilst smoking a spliff, sending text messages and driving at faster-miles-per-hour past a school hoping to impress the girls, I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
Nope: "Evolution in action". :-D
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CodeWraith wrote:
even the dumbest human driver has a few million years of evolution behind him
When that human driver happens to be a p***ed up 17 year old blasting out da G-funk at 110 dB whilst smoking a spliff, sending text messages and driving at faster-miles-per-hour past a school hoping to impress the girls, I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
Evolution usually works with trial and error... and there are a lot of darwin awarded people in the world. Pity is... they nowadays do find a partner in their wave length and increase the mess for one generation more
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I read that this was an erratic accident where even a human driver could not avoid the damages. And I also read that a 9 year old boy shot his 13 year old sister from backwards in head because she has taken his game console controller. :((
Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany
KarstenK wrote:
because she has taken his game console controller. :((
:omg: :omg: :wtf: :wtf: :doh: :doh: :doh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :(( :(( :(( X| X|
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd question the value of the evolutionary input!
Evolution usually works with trial and error... and there are a lot of darwin awarded people in the world. Pity is... they nowadays do find a partner in their wave length and increase the mess for one generation more
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Evolution is certainly a slow process. Humans have evolved, at let's say a 20 year generation cycle, over countless millennia and aren't really up to much as yet. Fruit flies evolve exponentially quicker than humans (more than a generation a day) and they're still pretty crap at anything that doesn't involve eating fruit and being gross. Motorists have evolved over 5 or 6 generations and it's a wonder that there are any of them left to breed.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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While this event is obviously tragic will this spawn a new genre on Utube "Crazy driveless videos"?
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Oh, you have those statistics? That would be an interesting read.
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Tomaž Štih wrote:
That is why the whole world talks about one casualty on the road while every year human drivers extinguish one Vietnam war of Americans.
Of course you are taking into account the disproportionate numbers of human drivers to robot drivers to arrive at such shocking statements, otherwise it could just as well be plain rhetorics. :-) My old cat was excellent at tracking moving objects and judging distances and speed. It also was arguably far more intelligent than any AI up to now. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to train the cat and give it a driver's license?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
First studies in 2012, understandably, showed lower accident rates for human drivers. But latest (2017) results now shows lower accident rate (per million miles) for robots. :-\
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Tomaž Štih wrote:
We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
That's not true. At least around here they make sure that you are equipped with the abilities of a few hundred million years of evolution before they even let you near a car with a driving instructor. Sure beats training a thing that has no idea what it is doing - or why it is supposed to do it. Did they really have to teach you how to look around and make sense of what you see?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
That didn't help us with chess and go. In a battle between engineering and the evolution -- in short term my bet is on evolution, and in long term on engineering. Resistance is futile, robots will assimilate you AND your cat. :)
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They haven't released the video footage, but the reports say it was her fault - she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision, human or robotic driver: Tempe police chief: Uber 'likely' not at fault in fatal self-driving car crash - Business Insider[^] And you can be sure that there is more telemetry and recorded info in this accident than in any previous death-by-driving case, with the possible exception of Ayrton Senna...
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OriginalGriff wrote:
she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision
Common sense and experience would probably have saved her, i don't know how you guys drive but as soon as i see someone behaving like he would just jump on the road i drive slower and focus to react as fast as possible. Same logic as with a ball jumping on the road, expect a kid jumping after it and you'll save a live. And another thing, the car was obviously speeding :thumbsup: brilliant technology X|
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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OriginalGriff wrote:
she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision
Common sense and experience would probably have saved her, i don't know how you guys drive but as soon as i see someone behaving like he would just jump on the road i drive slower and focus to react as fast as possible. Same logic as with a ball jumping on the road, expect a kid jumping after it and you'll save a live. And another thing, the car was obviously speeding :thumbsup: brilliant technology X|
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}I haven't seen and video of it, so I can't comment - it's entirely possible she was engrossed in her phone and just turned sharply and walked out, I don't know. If the car was speeding - and not of the reports I've seen have mentioned it - I'd be surprised. Some cars have come with "up to the limit" cruise control for years so I suspect that Uber would have limited it to the posted limit. Heck, my GPS goes "bong, bong, bong" when I exceed a speed limit! :laugh:
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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This being a tragic event does not make the tech will never be a success. Several accidents happened in the early days of air transportation. Now it is the safest way to travel (still piloted by hoomans tough). The tech is in a primitive stage and will improve after such disasters. After all hoomans learn only when the disaster has struck.
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking.
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And so with little alarm or concern the robot revolution started... :omg:
I disagree - I'd ban manually driven vehicles from motorways in a shot, and start banning them from city centres fairly soon. Think about it: a driverless car is never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex). Never unlicensed, angry, suicidal, distracted by the kids in the back, maintaining eye contact with the passenger while having a conversation, or diving into the glove box to change the music. All of which I have seen, and probably you as well. Probably we've both done some of 'em as well. :-O Road deaths don't amount to much compared to the "Big Killers" of heart disease, cancer, and respiratory problems - but they are nearly all preventable. And the weakest link in all motoring related accidents is ... the driver. He or she will be removed from the equation, probably within the next twenty years. And it will be for the best as well, regarless of how much fun I have had while driving! :laugh:
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I disagree - I'd ban manually driven vehicles from motorways in a shot, and start banning them from city centres fairly soon. Think about it: a driverless car is never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex). Never unlicensed, angry, suicidal, distracted by the kids in the back, maintaining eye contact with the passenger while having a conversation, or diving into the glove box to change the music. All of which I have seen, and probably you as well. Probably we've both done some of 'em as well. :-O Road deaths don't amount to much compared to the "Big Killers" of heart disease, cancer, and respiratory problems - but they are nearly all preventable. And the weakest link in all motoring related accidents is ... the driver. He or she will be removed from the equation, probably within the next twenty years. And it will be for the best as well, regarless of how much fun I have had while driving! :laugh:
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OriginalGriff wrote:
nothing could have prevented the collision, human or robotic driver
Yeah well I would dispute that, we've all been in that situation driving along where nobody is in front of you but they are near enough that you keep your eyes open - people walking close to the edge of the road, kids playing football in front of their house, dog walkers with the dog jumping about ... If this woman "walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision" seems likely she was already close to the edge of the road, most humans would (1) gently nudge the car away from that lane/road edge before reaching (I'm sure in Az the lanes are wide enough), and (2) pay extra attention to watch for change of direction. There's more to driving then what does happen, but being ready for what else can happen - yes some things are completely unexpected but where you can anticipate these possibilities you can and should be prepared. You see a drunk on the road do you pass within inches or wait till a nice big gap appears...
You're assuming that the dead woman was seen. From the initial police statement it seems likely that she managed to successfully hide herself in shadow prior to stepping out onto the road. "There is video of the crash, which investigators are examining but not been released to the public. "It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway," Moir said. Police have previously said Herzberg was not using a crosswalk."
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I haven't seen and video of it, so I can't comment - it's entirely possible she was engrossed in her phone and just turned sharply and walked out, I don't know. If the car was speeding - and not of the reports I've seen have mentioned it - I'd be surprised. Some cars have come with "up to the limit" cruise control for years so I suspect that Uber would have limited it to the posted limit. Heck, my GPS goes "bong, bong, bong" when I exceed a speed limit! :laugh:
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Your right with that, i'd just wanted to point that out :) Well, according to German News the car was driving ~39,5Mph on a 35Mph road, that's speeding i guess. And yea my GPS does the same :~ EDIT: BTW! found a link Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam - The New York Times[^] Don't know how much you like the nytimes, but there are plenty of other papers telling the car has speeded
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OriginalGriff wrote:
never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex).
I'm ashamed to say I've done 3 out of those 5 in the past.
And I am ashamed to admit to the the first three as well: all on motorcycles, and the first two combined on far too many occasions. In my defence, I was young and very, very stupid ... I worked out recently that every time I rode a bike for over ten years, I would probably have failed a breath test just from the booze I had drunk the night before. The "falling asleep on a motorcycle" one was my first foreign trip - I left work at 5 on Friday, and drove to Geneva to see my girlfriend. About 2 or 3AM on those long straight French roads it felt like the road level dropped by three of four inches. Ignored it, happened again. And again ... Finally realised I was falling asleep, letting go of the throttle and the sudden engine braking woke me up... :-O
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Your right with that, i'd just wanted to point that out :) Well, according to German News the car was driving ~39,5Mph on a 35Mph road, that's speeding i guess. And yea my GPS does the same :~ EDIT: BTW! found a link Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam - The New York Times[^] Don't know how much you like the nytimes, but there are plenty of other papers telling the car has speeded
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}39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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I know, we have the same "rule" though it's not 10% but more like 7% + 0 but would you expect an autonomus car that is design to drive BETTER than the human driver to drive faster than officially allowed? I think if it is 50 or 35 the AI car should drive 50 or 35.
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