Uber self driving car kills woman
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Tomaž Štih wrote:
That is why the whole world talks about one casualty on the road while every year human drivers extinguish one Vietnam war of Americans.
Of course you are taking into account the disproportionate numbers of human drivers to robot drivers to arrive at such shocking statements, otherwise it could just as well be plain rhetorics. :-) My old cat was excellent at tracking moving objects and judging distances and speed. It also was arguably far more intelligent than any AI up to now. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to train the cat and give it a driver's license?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
First studies in 2012, understandably, showed lower accident rates for human drivers. But latest (2017) results now shows lower accident rate (per million miles) for robots. :-\
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Tomaž Štih wrote:
We don't, we train him or her ... and pray.
That's not true. At least around here they make sure that you are equipped with the abilities of a few hundred million years of evolution before they even let you near a car with a driving instructor. Sure beats training a thing that has no idea what it is doing - or why it is supposed to do it. Did they really have to teach you how to look around and make sense of what you see?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
That didn't help us with chess and go. In a battle between engineering and the evolution -- in short term my bet is on evolution, and in long term on engineering. Resistance is futile, robots will assimilate you AND your cat. :)
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They haven't released the video footage, but the reports say it was her fault - she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision, human or robotic driver: Tempe police chief: Uber 'likely' not at fault in fatal self-driving car crash - Business Insider[^] And you can be sure that there is more telemetry and recorded info in this accident than in any previous death-by-driving case, with the possible exception of Ayrton Senna...
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OriginalGriff wrote:
she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision
Common sense and experience would probably have saved her, i don't know how you guys drive but as soon as i see someone behaving like he would just jump on the road i drive slower and focus to react as fast as possible. Same logic as with a ball jumping on the road, expect a kid jumping after it and you'll save a live. And another thing, the car was obviously speeding :thumbsup: brilliant technology X|
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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OriginalGriff wrote:
she walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision
Common sense and experience would probably have saved her, i don't know how you guys drive but as soon as i see someone behaving like he would just jump on the road i drive slower and focus to react as fast as possible. Same logic as with a ball jumping on the road, expect a kid jumping after it and you'll save a live. And another thing, the car was obviously speeding :thumbsup: brilliant technology X|
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}I haven't seen and video of it, so I can't comment - it's entirely possible she was engrossed in her phone and just turned sharply and walked out, I don't know. If the car was speeding - and not of the reports I've seen have mentioned it - I'd be surprised. Some cars have come with "up to the limit" cruise control for years so I suspect that Uber would have limited it to the posted limit. Heck, my GPS goes "bong, bong, bong" when I exceed a speed limit! :laugh:
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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This being a tragic event does not make the tech will never be a success. Several accidents happened in the early days of air transportation. Now it is the safest way to travel (still piloted by hoomans tough). The tech is in a primitive stage and will improve after such disasters. After all hoomans learn only when the disaster has struck.
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking.
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And so with little alarm or concern the robot revolution started... :omg:
I disagree - I'd ban manually driven vehicles from motorways in a shot, and start banning them from city centres fairly soon. Think about it: a driverless car is never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex). Never unlicensed, angry, suicidal, distracted by the kids in the back, maintaining eye contact with the passenger while having a conversation, or diving into the glove box to change the music. All of which I have seen, and probably you as well. Probably we've both done some of 'em as well. :-O Road deaths don't amount to much compared to the "Big Killers" of heart disease, cancer, and respiratory problems - but they are nearly all preventable. And the weakest link in all motoring related accidents is ... the driver. He or she will be removed from the equation, probably within the next twenty years. And it will be for the best as well, regarless of how much fun I have had while driving! :laugh:
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I disagree - I'd ban manually driven vehicles from motorways in a shot, and start banning them from city centres fairly soon. Think about it: a driverless car is never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex). Never unlicensed, angry, suicidal, distracted by the kids in the back, maintaining eye contact with the passenger while having a conversation, or diving into the glove box to change the music. All of which I have seen, and probably you as well. Probably we've both done some of 'em as well. :-O Road deaths don't amount to much compared to the "Big Killers" of heart disease, cancer, and respiratory problems - but they are nearly all preventable. And the weakest link in all motoring related accidents is ... the driver. He or she will be removed from the equation, probably within the next twenty years. And it will be for the best as well, regarless of how much fun I have had while driving! :laugh:
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OriginalGriff wrote:
nothing could have prevented the collision, human or robotic driver
Yeah well I would dispute that, we've all been in that situation driving along where nobody is in front of you but they are near enough that you keep your eyes open - people walking close to the edge of the road, kids playing football in front of their house, dog walkers with the dog jumping about ... If this woman "walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision" seems likely she was already close to the edge of the road, most humans would (1) gently nudge the car away from that lane/road edge before reaching (I'm sure in Az the lanes are wide enough), and (2) pay extra attention to watch for change of direction. There's more to driving then what does happen, but being ready for what else can happen - yes some things are completely unexpected but where you can anticipate these possibilities you can and should be prepared. You see a drunk on the road do you pass within inches or wait till a nice big gap appears...
You're assuming that the dead woman was seen. From the initial police statement it seems likely that she managed to successfully hide herself in shadow prior to stepping out onto the road. "There is video of the crash, which investigators are examining but not been released to the public. "It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway," Moir said. Police have previously said Herzberg was not using a crosswalk."
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I haven't seen and video of it, so I can't comment - it's entirely possible she was engrossed in her phone and just turned sharply and walked out, I don't know. If the car was speeding - and not of the reports I've seen have mentioned it - I'd be surprised. Some cars have come with "up to the limit" cruise control for years so I suspect that Uber would have limited it to the posted limit. Heck, my GPS goes "bong, bong, bong" when I exceed a speed limit! :laugh:
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Your right with that, i'd just wanted to point that out :) Well, according to German News the car was driving ~39,5Mph on a 35Mph road, that's speeding i guess. And yea my GPS does the same :~ EDIT: BTW! found a link Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam - The New York Times[^] Don't know how much you like the nytimes, but there are plenty of other papers telling the car has speeded
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OriginalGriff wrote:
never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex).
I'm ashamed to say I've done 3 out of those 5 in the past.
And I am ashamed to admit to the the first three as well: all on motorcycles, and the first two combined on far too many occasions. In my defence, I was young and very, very stupid ... I worked out recently that every time I rode a bike for over ten years, I would probably have failed a breath test just from the booze I had drunk the night before. The "falling asleep on a motorcycle" one was my first foreign trip - I left work at 5 on Friday, and drove to Geneva to see my girlfriend. About 2 or 3AM on those long straight French roads it felt like the road level dropped by three of four inches. Ignored it, happened again. And again ... Finally realised I was falling asleep, letting go of the throttle and the sudden engine braking woke me up... :-O
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Your right with that, i'd just wanted to point that out :) Well, according to German News the car was driving ~39,5Mph on a 35Mph road, that's speeding i guess. And yea my GPS does the same :~ EDIT: BTW! found a link Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam - The New York Times[^] Don't know how much you like the nytimes, but there are plenty of other papers telling the car has speeded
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}39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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I know, we have the same "rule" though it's not 10% but more like 7% + 0 but would you expect an autonomus car that is design to drive BETTER than the human driver to drive faster than officially allowed? I think if it is 50 or 35 the AI car should drive 50 or 35.
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I know, we have the same "rule" though it's not 10% but more like 7% + 0 but would you expect an autonomus car that is design to drive BETTER than the human driver to drive faster than officially allowed? I think if it is 50 or 35 the AI car should drive 50 or 35.
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}I know what you mean, but ... that may be a problem in "real world" traffic which isn't doing that. Just how annoyed is Joe BMW going to be when driving six inches from a self drive car with the headlights on full beam doesn't speed it up? :laugh:
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I know what you mean, but ... that may be a problem in "real world" traffic which isn't doing that. Just how annoyed is Joe BMW going to be when driving six inches from a self drive car with the headlights on full beam doesn't speed it up? :laugh:
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Did you know there are orange bits on each corner of your car that you can make flash to indicate to other drivers where you want to go?
Quote:
Just think: no matter how futile your job seems, there is a man whose whole working life has been fitting indicators to BMWs...
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Did you know there are orange bits on each corner of your car that you can make flash to indicate to other drivers where you want to go?
Quote:
Just think: no matter how futile your job seems, there is a man whose whole working life has been fitting indicators to BMWs...
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I do, most times i use them but the other most times my blinkerfluid is empty so it doesn't work :laugh:
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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Considering how many human drivers are knowingly reckless on the road, the argument's a wash. However, let's assume that somehow the AI is perfected and has a good fuzzy-logic add in, to boot. My fear is more persistent: Hackers. Also, remote control of the vehicle by "legal" means and without my control. These are more inevitable fearsome consequences.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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And I am ashamed to admit to the the first three as well: all on motorcycles, and the first two combined on far too many occasions. In my defence, I was young and very, very stupid ... I worked out recently that every time I rode a bike for over ten years, I would probably have failed a breath test just from the booze I had drunk the night before. The "falling asleep on a motorcycle" one was my first foreign trip - I left work at 5 on Friday, and drove to Geneva to see my girlfriend. About 2 or 3AM on those long straight French roads it felt like the road level dropped by three of four inches. Ignored it, happened again. And again ... Finally realised I was falling asleep, letting go of the throttle and the sudden engine braking woke me up... :-O
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Shit if that counts as falling asleep I've done 4. Probably 5 although I don't remember reading a Newspaper.
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39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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Be very careful with that, you're quoting years old wisdom. Many police forces have lowered the "unofficial" tolerance to between 0 and 3% depending on the country, UK included (3%); reasoning is today's speedometers are far more accurate than they were >20 years ago. (In NZ/Australia it's zero and they have days where they enforce that to the brink, often though it mostly it depends on the cop on the day and with respect to prevailing conditions including the speed of the other traffic.) Anything, even 0.5 mi/km above the speed limit[^] is ticketable even if your speedo is out because it's also "the owners job to keep their vehicle in good, legal, road worthy, and proper working order." Finally they will also state if you are unsure you may drive a little below the posted limit, however too much under, particularly if holding up other traffic is often nearly everywhere also an offence unless you are doing so to avoid a dangerous situation.
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