Uber self driving car kills woman
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OriginalGriff wrote:
nothing could have prevented the collision, human or robotic driver
Yeah well I would dispute that, we've all been in that situation driving along where nobody is in front of you but they are near enough that you keep your eyes open - people walking close to the edge of the road, kids playing football in front of their house, dog walkers with the dog jumping about ... If this woman "walked out in front of it so close than nothing could have prevented the collision" seems likely she was already close to the edge of the road, most humans would (1) gently nudge the car away from that lane/road edge before reaching (I'm sure in Az the lanes are wide enough), and (2) pay extra attention to watch for change of direction. There's more to driving then what does happen, but being ready for what else can happen - yes some things are completely unexpected but where you can anticipate these possibilities you can and should be prepared. You see a drunk on the road do you pass within inches or wait till a nice big gap appears...
You're assuming that the dead woman was seen. From the initial police statement it seems likely that she managed to successfully hide herself in shadow prior to stepping out onto the road. "There is video of the crash, which investigators are examining but not been released to the public. "It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway," Moir said. Police have previously said Herzberg was not using a crosswalk."
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I haven't seen and video of it, so I can't comment - it's entirely possible she was engrossed in her phone and just turned sharply and walked out, I don't know. If the car was speeding - and not of the reports I've seen have mentioned it - I'd be surprised. Some cars have come with "up to the limit" cruise control for years so I suspect that Uber would have limited it to the posted limit. Heck, my GPS goes "bong, bong, bong" when I exceed a speed limit! :laugh:
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Your right with that, i'd just wanted to point that out :) Well, according to German News the car was driving ~39,5Mph on a 35Mph road, that's speeding i guess. And yea my GPS does the same :~ EDIT: BTW! found a link Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam - The New York Times[^] Don't know how much you like the nytimes, but there are plenty of other papers telling the car has speeded
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OriginalGriff wrote:
never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex).
I'm ashamed to say I've done 3 out of those 5 in the past.
And I am ashamed to admit to the the first three as well: all on motorcycles, and the first two combined on far too many occasions. In my defence, I was young and very, very stupid ... I worked out recently that every time I rode a bike for over ten years, I would probably have failed a breath test just from the booze I had drunk the night before. The "falling asleep on a motorcycle" one was my first foreign trip - I left work at 5 on Friday, and drove to Geneva to see my girlfriend. About 2 or 3AM on those long straight French roads it felt like the road level dropped by three of four inches. Ignored it, happened again. And again ... Finally realised I was falling asleep, letting go of the throttle and the sudden engine braking woke me up... :-O
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Your right with that, i'd just wanted to point that out :) Well, according to German News the car was driving ~39,5Mph on a 35Mph road, that's speeding i guess. And yea my GPS does the same :~ EDIT: BTW! found a link Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam - The New York Times[^] Don't know how much you like the nytimes, but there are plenty of other papers telling the car has speeded
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}39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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I know, we have the same "rule" though it's not 10% but more like 7% + 0 but would you expect an autonomus car that is design to drive BETTER than the human driver to drive faster than officially allowed? I think if it is 50 or 35 the AI car should drive 50 or 35.
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I know, we have the same "rule" though it's not 10% but more like 7% + 0 but would you expect an autonomus car that is design to drive BETTER than the human driver to drive faster than officially allowed? I think if it is 50 or 35 the AI car should drive 50 or 35.
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}I know what you mean, but ... that may be a problem in "real world" traffic which isn't doing that. Just how annoyed is Joe BMW going to be when driving six inches from a self drive car with the headlights on full beam doesn't speed it up? :laugh:
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I know what you mean, but ... that may be a problem in "real world" traffic which isn't doing that. Just how annoyed is Joe BMW going to be when driving six inches from a self drive car with the headlights on full beam doesn't speed it up? :laugh:
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Did you know there are orange bits on each corner of your car that you can make flash to indicate to other drivers where you want to go?
Quote:
Just think: no matter how futile your job seems, there is a man whose whole working life has been fitting indicators to BMWs...
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Did you know there are orange bits on each corner of your car that you can make flash to indicate to other drivers where you want to go?
Quote:
Just think: no matter how futile your job seems, there is a man whose whole working life has been fitting indicators to BMWs...
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I do, most times i use them but the other most times my blinkerfluid is empty so it doesn't work :laugh:
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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Considering how many human drivers are knowingly reckless on the road, the argument's a wash. However, let's assume that somehow the AI is perfected and has a good fuzzy-logic add in, to boot. My fear is more persistent: Hackers. Also, remote control of the vehicle by "legal" means and without my control. These are more inevitable fearsome consequences.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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And I am ashamed to admit to the the first three as well: all on motorcycles, and the first two combined on far too many occasions. In my defence, I was young and very, very stupid ... I worked out recently that every time I rode a bike for over ten years, I would probably have failed a breath test just from the booze I had drunk the night before. The "falling asleep on a motorcycle" one was my first foreign trip - I left work at 5 on Friday, and drove to Geneva to see my girlfriend. About 2 or 3AM on those long straight French roads it felt like the road level dropped by three of four inches. Ignored it, happened again. And again ... Finally realised I was falling asleep, letting go of the throttle and the sudden engine braking woke me up... :-O
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Shit if that counts as falling asleep I've done 4. Probably 5 although I don't remember reading a Newspaper.
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39.5 on a 35 is within the UK "unofficial tolerance" applied by the police: posted speed + 10% + 2. So they don't worry about 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, ... and 35 would be 40.5 It's to allow for inaccuracies in speedometers and / or tire wear affecting the speedo reading I understand. I'd suspect other countries do the same thing.
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Be very careful with that, you're quoting years old wisdom. Many police forces have lowered the "unofficial" tolerance to between 0 and 3% depending on the country, UK included (3%); reasoning is today's speedometers are far more accurate than they were >20 years ago. (In NZ/Australia it's zero and they have days where they enforce that to the brink, often though it mostly it depends on the cop on the day and with respect to prevailing conditions including the speed of the other traffic.) Anything, even 0.5 mi/km above the speed limit[^] is ticketable even if your speedo is out because it's also "the owners job to keep their vehicle in good, legal, road worthy, and proper working order." Finally they will also state if you are unsure you may drive a little below the posted limit, however too much under, particularly if holding up other traffic is often nearly everywhere also an offence unless you are doing so to avoid a dangerous situation.
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Evolution is certainly a slow process. Humans have evolved, at let's say a 20 year generation cycle, over countless millennia and aren't really up to much as yet. Fruit flies evolve exponentially quicker than humans (more than a generation a day) and they're still pretty crap at anything that doesn't involve eating fruit and being gross. Motorists have evolved over 5 or 6 generations and it's a wonder that there are any of them left to breed.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
PeejayAdams wrote:
they're still pretty crap at anything that doesn't involve eating fruit and being gross.
But they are REALLY excellent at eating fruit and being gross. :-D
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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PeejayAdams wrote:
they're still pretty crap at anything that doesn't involve eating fruit and being gross.
But they are REALLY excellent at eating fruit and being gross. :-D
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Yes, in fairness, you have to give them that! :laugh:
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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Sounds like suicide-by-self-driving-car -- that'll be a thing, like jumping in front of a train. Oh, and the blasted things are all over the place in this area. And they're pretty obvious, so if you want to off yourself with one it must be pretty easy, though I won't test that theory.
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Thank you for that, it was an interesting read. From that report it seems that the self driving cars have less minor accidents. It is a lot closer with the more significant accidents, but self-driving cars still have less accidents (although by the admission of the report there is too little data to form any conclusions.) I personally think they over-estimate the number of unreported serious accidents - although I might be wrong there. One thing they omit is the number of incidents that are averted by the driver interceding. I believe all of the data was gathered with an actual driver. What we are seeing more of now is driverless cars. BTW in case you have not guessed I am against driverless cars, as I do not think they are ready yet, but I am not against self-driving cars.
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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And, the Self-drive Uber car attendant is... a FELON. Bank robbery. So much for Uber doing background checks.
The best way to improve Windows is run it on a Mac. The best way to bring a Mac to its knees is to run Windows on it. ~ my brother Jeff
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Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian | Technology | The Guardian[^] And we know who the passenger was, don't we: God Mode ON | CommitStrip[^]
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This is certainly going to happen if you are going to let AI drive a car. After all, the human mind is something which even the greatest scientists of all time cannot think of building. So, better let humans drive cars around the world.
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You are describing a good human driver, what about the many deaths daily caused by detracted, dangerous drivers. By the time this technology makes it to the mainstream, all the bugs will be sorted out and the roads will be a far safer place, current dangerous and careless driving offenses will no longer exist.
I doubt that 'all' bugs will be sorted out, but that is not the point. At all. The point is that the system works better than most human drivers. Judging by the very few reports of autonomous vehicles involved in accidents, these systems have already surpassed that mark! I'm sure if, today, all vehicles would be equipped with the latest autonomous systems, the number of accidents would be drastically reduced, and the main cause for accidents still happening would be pedestrians, bikers, and other road users that are not equipped with such a system for whatever reason, behaving in erratic ways. The only good reason against such a stepp would be indications that autonomous systems can cause crashs among themselves - so far I am not aware of a single incident of that kind, but of course there are too few autonomous vehcles around for that to be a useful statement at this time.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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This is certainly going to happen if you are going to let AI drive a car. After all, the human mind is something which even the greatest scientists of all time cannot think of building. So, better let humans drive cars around the world.
It's not AI, it's just a computer program driving a car, "true intelligence" is not involved, just sensors and inputs. But ... I disagree with you. Think about it: a driverless car is never pissed, stoned, asleep, reading a newspaper, (or in extreme cases having sex). Never unlicensed, angry, suicidal, distracted by the kids in the back, maintaining eye contact with the passenger while having a conversation, or diving into the glove box to change the music. Driving a car is dangerous - the use of them as terrorist weapons shows that, even if the road death toll didn't (nearly 150,000 people are killed on the road of India every year!) And most humans are really pretty bad at it. Within a generation, the "right" to drive a car will be withdrawn, replaced with a legal requirement to have a robot do it for you. And that generation's children will be horrified that we drove ourselves!
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