School shooting UK style
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A_Griffin wrote:
There may have been ~37,000 knife offences, but there were less than 100 deaths amongst them.
Is not every stabbing an attempted murder?
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No. But even if they were, it doesn't alter my point. (In fact, it would rather reinforce it.)
It is the intent that is important and has to be addressed.
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One rational suggestion I have heard for trying to stop school shootings is for kids to befriend the weird, eccentric, outcast kid who seems to have no friends. The reason being people are much less likely to kill their friends if they find themselves in a position of thinking or wanting to harm others.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
In this country, if you do that, the media will call you "an accessory" after the kid goes on to shoot up a school. This will be followed by all legal gun owners being blamed for the incident, despite the fact that they weren't even in the area.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
You have to do your part to let these ridiculous gun debate threads die off (no pun intended). By now, they server absolutely no purpose of any kind. Just saying...
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took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
I'm not a psychiatrist, so I don't know how to fix people (if they can even be fixed). Why are you asking me if shotguns should be banned? My answer is, a you might expect, no. I have a K-Bar (Marine Corps battle/survival knife) and a Bowie knife (this is a polite name for miniature machete). Neither of them (and none of my guns) have caused injury to any other person. I don't fondle them absentmindedly, and I don't just sit an gaze longingly at them. They're properly stowed but ready for use at a moment's notice. I hated school enough when I was a kid that I never wish to see the inside (or even outside) of another one. Why should my weapons be caught up in a drag-net of far-left hand-wringing?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
You have to do your part to let these ridiculous gun debate threads die off (no pun intended). By now, they server absolutely no purpose of any kind. Just saying...
Slacker007 wrote:
they server absolutely no purpose of any kind
Except an good discussion. :)
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I'm not a psychiatrist, so I don't know how to fix people (if they can even be fixed). Why are you asking me if shotguns should be banned? My answer is, a you might expect, no. I have a K-Bar (Marine Corps battle/survival knife) and a Bowie knife (this is a polite name for miniature machete). Neither of them (and none of my guns) have caused injury to any other person. I don't fondle them absentmindedly, and I don't just sit an gaze longingly at them. They're properly stowed but ready for use at a moment's notice. I hated school enough when I was a kid that I never wish to see the inside (or even outside) of another one. Why should my weapons be caught up in a drag-net of far-left hand-wringing?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out: But as you say you are not a psychologist, neither am I, and I doubt any supposedly qualified person does, we just dont know what makes people tick to this extent. Perhaps we need a big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
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You have to do your part to let these ridiculous gun debate threads die off (no pun intended). By now, they server absolutely no purpose of any kind. Just saying...
We gave him responsibility to ensure the global warming threads died off too :^)
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Slacker007 wrote:
they server absolutely no purpose of any kind
Except an good discussion. :)
Correct, but we have already had these discussions, over and over and over and over and over, and they don't really change. Thus, they serve no purpose anymore. Just my two cents. :)
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We gave him responsibility to ensure the global warming threads died off too :^)
Yeah, I thought about that very thing as I wrote the post, but we could give him that, and nothing more (reluctantly). :laugh:
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took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
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Correct, but we have already had these discussions, over and over and over and over and over, and they don't really change. Thus, they serve no purpose anymore. Just my two cents. :)
Got anything else to do? :)
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We gave him responsibility to ensure the global warming threads died off too :^)
When the CAGW scam dies, so will my posts. :)
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took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
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The evidence says reducing access to guns reduces the lethality of impulsivity. Take away the gun; less likely to complete the homicide or suicide. But just like GW, you “don’t believe” data.
Ireland has 4/5ths the gun ownership of the UK yet 30 times the murder rate. Controlling guns does not control murder. That is the data.
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Ireland has 4/5ths the gun ownership of the UK yet 30 times the murder rate. Controlling guns does not control murder. That is the data.
No, as I said in another thread, that’s correlation, not causation. :laugh: Should we just repeat verbatim the last discussion? Sounds typical. You can’t defend, so you make a new thread and repeat argument. Tiresome. Plenty of peer reviewed data that removing lethal devices like guns from easy access reduces completed homicide and suicide. Try googling that fact instead. :rolleyes:
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I think Guy's answer is the right approach in schools. As for society itself, it could be impossible.
Well that is not a bad idea. But also, you know, guns are pretty efficient killing machines and easy to get hold of.
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I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out: But as you say you are not a psychologist, neither am I, and I doubt any supposedly qualified person does, we just dont know what makes people tick to this extent. Perhaps we need a big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Perhaps we need a_nother_ big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
I fixed your statement for you. Yeah sure, throw more tax-payer money at it. If you do that enough nobody will have enough money to buy guns or ammo because they're paying taxes to fund yet another pointless study. In the end, a "study" results in nothing more than a collection of the most agreed upon theories and conjecture as to why someone acts the way they do. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass. If psychology/psychiatry actually worked, we wouldn't have a bunch of drugged-to-the-moon crazy people running around. It's all bullsh|t.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Perhaps we need a_nother_ big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
I fixed your statement for you. Yeah sure, throw more tax-payer money at it. If you do that enough nobody will have enough money to buy guns or ammo because they're paying taxes to fund yet another pointless study. In the end, a "study" results in nothing more than a collection of the most agreed upon theories and conjecture as to why someone acts the way they do. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass. If psychology/psychiatry actually worked, we wouldn't have a bunch of drugged-to-the-moon crazy people running around. It's all bullsh|t.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
It's all bullsh|t.
Really? That is rather a sad viewpoint. The idea that we can not understand ourselves and lead better lives is not one I agree with or want to agree with.
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I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out: But as you say you are not a psychologist, neither am I, and I doubt any supposedly qualified person does, we just dont know what makes people tick to this extent. Perhaps we need a big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out:
Could it be, like I said, that a shotgun is more easily lethal when used impulsively than a knife? And impulsivity is an important component of action in mental illness? And most people don't carry through with things if they have to think about it too hard or it's too difficult to do? For fuck sake...
