School shooting UK style
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You have to do your part to let these ridiculous gun debate threads die off (no pun intended). By now, they server absolutely no purpose of any kind. Just saying...
Slacker007 wrote:
they server absolutely no purpose of any kind
Except an good discussion. :)
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took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
I'm not a psychiatrist, so I don't know how to fix people (if they can even be fixed). Why are you asking me if shotguns should be banned? My answer is, a you might expect, no. I have a K-Bar (Marine Corps battle/survival knife) and a Bowie knife (this is a polite name for miniature machete). Neither of them (and none of my guns) have caused injury to any other person. I don't fondle them absentmindedly, and I don't just sit an gaze longingly at them. They're properly stowed but ready for use at a moment's notice. I hated school enough when I was a kid that I never wish to see the inside (or even outside) of another one. Why should my weapons be caught up in a drag-net of far-left hand-wringing?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I'm not a psychiatrist, so I don't know how to fix people (if they can even be fixed). Why are you asking me if shotguns should be banned? My answer is, a you might expect, no. I have a K-Bar (Marine Corps battle/survival knife) and a Bowie knife (this is a polite name for miniature machete). Neither of them (and none of my guns) have caused injury to any other person. I don't fondle them absentmindedly, and I don't just sit an gaze longingly at them. They're properly stowed but ready for use at a moment's notice. I hated school enough when I was a kid that I never wish to see the inside (or even outside) of another one. Why should my weapons be caught up in a drag-net of far-left hand-wringing?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out: But as you say you are not a psychologist, neither am I, and I doubt any supposedly qualified person does, we just dont know what makes people tick to this extent. Perhaps we need a big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
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You have to do your part to let these ridiculous gun debate threads die off (no pun intended). By now, they server absolutely no purpose of any kind. Just saying...
We gave him responsibility to ensure the global warming threads died off too :^)
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We gave him responsibility to ensure the global warming threads died off too :^)
Yeah, I thought about that very thing as I wrote the post, but we could give him that, and nothing more (reluctantly). :laugh:
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Slacker007 wrote:
they server absolutely no purpose of any kind
Except an good discussion. :)
Correct, but we have already had these discussions, over and over and over and over and over, and they don't really change. Thus, they serve no purpose anymore. Just my two cents. :)
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took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
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Correct, but we have already had these discussions, over and over and over and over and over, and they don't really change. Thus, they serve no purpose anymore. Just my two cents. :)
Got anything else to do? :)
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We gave him responsibility to ensure the global warming threads died off too :^)
When the CAGW scam dies, so will my posts. :)
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took a 12-bore shotgun and 200 cartridges from his father's gun cabinet before entering Higham Lane School, in Nuneaton[^] Described as a model son, yet "Bottling up his emotions for months, he had recently been diagnosed with a type of autism and had suffered bullying in the past." "He moved to a quiet area of the building where he 'decided to load the shotgun', said his barrister, Simon Russell-Flint QC. 'But it appears that was immediately followed by him realising the stupidity of his actions,' he added." John, thats what I was asking you. At that critical point why doesnt a perpetrator realise that his actions just make things worse. Here is an example of such a though happening. "He rang 999 on his mobile phone and told the operator that 'he had a shotgun and ammunition and was at a school'. When asked why, he replied: 'I don't know why - I felt so angry this morning, I had to get it out'." Would banning shotguns have made any difference to his feelings of anger? Of wanting to 'get it out' as a response to being bullied? Of course not. He would have got a knife instead. Just like these people did: There were 37,443 recorded knife offences and 6,694 recorded gun offences in the year up to September 2017[^]
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The evidence says reducing access to guns reduces the lethality of impulsivity. Take away the gun; less likely to complete the homicide or suicide. But just like GW, you “don’t believe” data.
Ireland has 4/5ths the gun ownership of the UK yet 30 times the murder rate. Controlling guns does not control murder. That is the data.
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Ireland has 4/5ths the gun ownership of the UK yet 30 times the murder rate. Controlling guns does not control murder. That is the data.
No, as I said in another thread, that’s correlation, not causation. :laugh: Should we just repeat verbatim the last discussion? Sounds typical. You can’t defend, so you make a new thread and repeat argument. Tiresome. Plenty of peer reviewed data that removing lethal devices like guns from easy access reduces completed homicide and suicide. Try googling that fact instead. :rolleyes:
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I think Guy's answer is the right approach in schools. As for society itself, it could be impossible.
Well that is not a bad idea. But also, you know, guns are pretty efficient killing machines and easy to get hold of.
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I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out: But as you say you are not a psychologist, neither am I, and I doubt any supposedly qualified person does, we just dont know what makes people tick to this extent. Perhaps we need a big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Perhaps we need a_nother_ big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
I fixed your statement for you. Yeah sure, throw more tax-payer money at it. If you do that enough nobody will have enough money to buy guns or ammo because they're paying taxes to fund yet another pointless study. In the end, a "study" results in nothing more than a collection of the most agreed upon theories and conjecture as to why someone acts the way they do. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass. If psychology/psychiatry actually worked, we wouldn't have a bunch of drugged-to-the-moon crazy people running around. It's all bullsh|t.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Perhaps we need a_nother_ big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
I fixed your statement for you. Yeah sure, throw more tax-payer money at it. If you do that enough nobody will have enough money to buy guns or ammo because they're paying taxes to fund yet another pointless study. In the end, a "study" results in nothing more than a collection of the most agreed upon theories and conjecture as to why someone acts the way they do. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass. If psychology/psychiatry actually worked, we wouldn't have a bunch of drugged-to-the-moon crazy people running around. It's all bullsh|t.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
It's all bullsh|t.
Really? That is rather a sad viewpoint. The idea that we can not understand ourselves and lead better lives is not one I agree with or want to agree with.
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I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out: But as you say you are not a psychologist, neither am I, and I doubt any supposedly qualified person does, we just dont know what makes people tick to this extent. Perhaps we need a big study into the history of gun crime perpetrators, nature and nurture, and see if there is anything identifiable that can be changed.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out:
Could it be, like I said, that a shotgun is more easily lethal when used impulsively than a knife? And impulsivity is an important component of action in mental illness? And most people don't carry through with things if they have to think about it too hard or it's too difficult to do? For fuck sake...
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No, as I said in another thread, that’s correlation, not causation. :laugh: Should we just repeat verbatim the last discussion? Sounds typical. You can’t defend, so you make a new thread and repeat argument. Tiresome. Plenty of peer reviewed data that removing lethal devices like guns from easy access reduces completed homicide and suicide. Try googling that fact instead. :rolleyes:
It isnt even not causation, it is not non causation too. The fact is guns have nothing to do with murder rate. The reality is there are many ways to kill, the tool used is irrelevant when it comes to reducing the number of people killed. Top 10 Common Methods of Suicide[^] "In the US ... we experience 11,000 self-inflicted deaths per year, and the UK: 7,000" So a quarter the population, yet over half as many suicides. So a country with tight gun control has a higher suicide rate.
Sablerz wrote:
removing lethal devices like guns from easy access reduces completed homicide and suicide
is therefore simply disproved. Now, where is your 'plenty of peer reviewed data'?
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It isnt even not causation, it is not non causation too. The fact is guns have nothing to do with murder rate. The reality is there are many ways to kill, the tool used is irrelevant when it comes to reducing the number of people killed. Top 10 Common Methods of Suicide[^] "In the US ... we experience 11,000 self-inflicted deaths per year, and the UK: 7,000" So a quarter the population, yet over half as many suicides. So a country with tight gun control has a higher suicide rate.
Sablerz wrote:
removing lethal devices like guns from easy access reduces completed homicide and suicide
is therefore simply disproved. Now, where is your 'plenty of peer reviewed data'?
I don’t think you understand correlation vs causation. Zambia has 50 times the guns and bullets and 50 times the murder rate. Therefore it’s the guns. That’s your dumb arguments, but in reverse. My position is easy to find on Google. My guess is you already did but want me to post specific articles for you to nit pick. Nah. That’s not how the scientific literature works. You can easily find consensus opinions yourself. Later gator!
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
I am not suggesting shotguns be banned, so not asking you that, but following on from the last thread, where I asked you what it is that makes the perpetrator not stop and think at that critical moment, with the way this story played out:
Could it be, like I said, that a shotgun is more easily lethal when used impulsively than a knife? And impulsivity is an important component of action in mental illness? And most people don't carry through with things if they have to think about it too hard or it's too difficult to do? For fuck sake...
Did you read the story? This school kid had a shotgun, therefore had the 'impulsivity' you talk of, and yet did reflect and not carry out a mass shooting.
Sablerz wrote:
For f*** sake.
So, for fucks sake back at you: Read the story, for fucks sake. ;P
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I don’t think you understand correlation vs causation. Zambia has 50 times the guns and bullets and 50 times the murder rate. Therefore it’s the guns. That’s your dumb arguments, but in reverse. My position is easy to find on Google. My guess is you already did but want me to post specific articles for you to nit pick. Nah. That’s not how the scientific literature works. You can easily find consensus opinions yourself. Later gator!
No it isnt my argument. My argument is that there is no correlation OR causation between guns and murder. The tool doesnt cause murder, and the tool used doesnt correlate with murder. (or suicide) Get it?
Sablerz wrote:
My position is easy to find on Google
Yet now you have been asked to produce your data you cant.
