Someone help me choose which to learn first, can't and lost
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
Please see this answer:
- Ravi Bhavnani's answer to I want to start learning how to code. Where should I start? What do I need? - Quora[^]
/ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
The best way to begin a career in programming is to train your brain. One of the best books I read and worked through towards that goal was Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. The language Scheme[^] isn't the most important part here, but rather learning how to use that grey matter in your noggin to solve problems.
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
Start with Visual Studio Community Edition and C++ in a procedural way--that is, without objects.
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
A programming language is just a tool. Learn how to problem-solve first, then pick up the tool best suited for the problem. Universities these days are teaching how to solve problems by learning a programming language. Using that mindset, once the problem changes, the student is lost.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Please see this answer:
- Ravi Bhavnani's answer to I want to start learning how to code. Where should I start? What do I need? - Quora[^]
/ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
That's a really good list and summary of what we need to know as software developers - I still have a way to go on some of them :)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
Hands down Python. JavaScript is ubiqitous, but let's say, it wasn't designed, it evolved. And it shows. Same goes for PHP. HTML/CSS isn't programming, it's markup. Python is in high demand, it's (mostly) well-structured and it tends to be recommended as a beginner's/learner's language a lot.
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
Examples of what you want to do goes a long way to help with suggestions.
sammygirl wrote:
see creations come to life
You could write the game of life John Conway's Game of Life[^] in language. Some you might spend more time on getting the visuals to work, and others may be the reverse where visuals take a short time, but the code behind is more tricky. If you like things like this Draggable | jQuery UI[^] and want to make a picture puzzle - HTML + Javascript - you can skip the "hardcore" css for inline styling on first pass. - 2-3 days (10 hours) on the middle amount of time to do something. - then 2+ years of adding features to cloud save, different sized pieces, cross platform support, fixing that weird bug your number one user keeps getting but you cant replicate. Customizable colour schemes, individual user styles, performance inprovements, ai helper, machine learning auto solver, color bind support, other alternative usability support, rewritting it from scratch.
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
Can't you just do C# in Visual Studio Code like a normal beginner? If you can figure out how to set up Visual Studio Code to compile, run, and debug your code, you will have gained a valuable real-world practical skill. If you get started with .NET Core 2.1 today (= the thing that runs your C# code) you'll be somewhat good at it when they reach version 3. Version 3 will introduce a bunch of UI stuff. If you time it right, you can get on that gravy train when it starts chugging. If I have to pick something from that list, do Python. But don't get bamboozled: starting with python is really easy, but it takes forever to get good at it. C# is harder to pick up, but you get good at it much faster. Also, number 2 is a raging dumpster-fire, number 3 ian't a damn programming language, and number 4 is spelled wrong. But those are just details you can safely ignore for now. We all have to start somewhere.
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Start with Visual Studio Community Edition and C++ in a procedural way--that is, without objects.
Easy there.. that's decent learning. People stopped doing that a while ago. I don't think people have the patience for C++ anymore. At least not as a first language. I still remember trying to figure out pointers when I was 12. Good times. First time I ever yelled at a computer screen, a book, and cursed the gods.
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Start with Visual Studio Community Edition and C++ in a procedural way--that is, without objects.
OO and OO are different things. I believe that simple use of OO is great for a beginner. The problems come when some code wizard comes to show all the superfancy ways you can use the most intricate details of advanced OO to do things that only code wizards will understand :-) I was coding C++ for a number of years, before taking over a couple of C# projects. Then, after a few years, I picked up one of my old hobby C++ projects, and got terribly frustrated: I had completely forgotten about all those messy details, having nothing to do with solving the problem, but with initialization / setup, heap management and lots of other stuff. I felt as if I had to search through an intertwingled mess of really not relevant code details to find the real problem solution parts. So my vote goes for C# rather than C++. It also gives you basic OO "for free"; there is no way to do C# without objects - but it doesn't have the cost that it does in C++. I'd also say that Visual Studio support for C# is better than for C++, but that is partially because the language (read: the lack of explicit pointer handling) makes it easier to provide better support. In one respect I fully agree with you: Especially for a beginner, a compiled language is essential. Then entire program code must be syntactically checked (and as far as possible, semantically checked) before any execution - that is a great help for a beginner. And the continous syntax checking while editing, done by VS, is a great help to reduce the compilation errors. So, thumbs up for compiled, strictly typed languages.
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Hands down Python. JavaScript is ubiqitous, but let's say, it wasn't designed, it evolved. And it shows. Same goes for PHP. HTML/CSS isn't programming, it's markup. Python is in high demand, it's (mostly) well-structured and it tends to be recommended as a beginner's/learner's language a lot.
I don't know of very many designed languages - and those I know of, has more or less flopped. Now, I don't mind that Ada flopped; it was a mastadont both conceptually and implementation-wise. APL is so curious that you never could expect it to succeed (but it wa fun to play with :-)) But I miss CHILL... A really well-designed language: Lightweight, yet with all the facilities for multi-threaded programming designed into the language. Clean exception handling. A type ("mode") system that beats almost any other language. Some details of the flow control structures that makes it great. Syntax is very well suited for catching errors, even semantic ones. Especially considering that the first version was standardized as early as 1980 makes it a remarkable language. There are other designed languages as well, but the vast majority are evolved languages. Some, like Python, may not have done all the evolution steps by themselves but adopted large parts of their syntax from its predecessors, which have been through a significant evolution. It is not like the designers brought up a pile of blank sheets, agreeing "Let's do it right from the very beginning, this time!" - more like adding and removing features from an old language so much that it ends up as a "new" language.
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
- HTML/CSS - HTML is simple, and you can learn enough to get by in an afternoon. Same with CSS, but expect things not to look like you expect for a while, till you get the hang of it. 2) Javascript --Specifically, ES6 or later, or better, TypeScript. It has the lowest barriers to enter (no compiler; just a text editor & browser), and give you the basics of OO design. 3) Python. 4) Php -- actually, I can't offer any reason to learn PHP.
Truth, James
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That was one project I had in college, not to actually load but to pseudocode it out. It was one I didn't finish. Wife had a miscarriage at the time didn't help the brain to function. We did eventually have 3 kids and the oldest is pregnant with our first grandchild, due at the end of August so no condolences needed.
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That was one project I had in college, not to actually load but to pseudocode it out. It was one I didn't finish. Wife had a miscarriage at the time didn't help the brain to function. We did eventually have 3 kids and the oldest is pregnant with our first grandchild, due at the end of August so no condolences needed.
MarkTJohnson wrote:
due at the end of August so no condolences needed.
Congratulations on almost being Grandpa! :-D
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
VB.net I currently have a high school sophomore/Junior interning for me who had no idea about programming to start with. I thought PHP/html/js would be a good start, following a book. Boy was I ever wrong. We switched this intern to VB.net and the immediate feedback and seeing results made all the difference. And I think the language is far easier to pick up than C#, while allowing you to do everything you need to. This is not necessarily what I would have a true CS student learn. There is a value to continually hitting your head against a wall and feeling the relief of breaking through only to do it again, that you experience with other languages. This is how I describe development to new engineers. Learning this fortitude is a useful skill. But for a self taught newbie, I would go with VB.net. Once you know one language, the rest are all about understanding various types of syntax.
"Qulatiy is Job #1"
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OO and OO are different things. I believe that simple use of OO is great for a beginner. The problems come when some code wizard comes to show all the superfancy ways you can use the most intricate details of advanced OO to do things that only code wizards will understand :-) I was coding C++ for a number of years, before taking over a couple of C# projects. Then, after a few years, I picked up one of my old hobby C++ projects, and got terribly frustrated: I had completely forgotten about all those messy details, having nothing to do with solving the problem, but with initialization / setup, heap management and lots of other stuff. I felt as if I had to search through an intertwingled mess of really not relevant code details to find the real problem solution parts. So my vote goes for C# rather than C++. It also gives you basic OO "for free"; there is no way to do C# without objects - but it doesn't have the cost that it does in C++. I'd also say that Visual Studio support for C# is better than for C++, but that is partially because the language (read: the lack of explicit pointer handling) makes it easier to provide better support. In one respect I fully agree with you: Especially for a beginner, a compiled language is essential. Then entire program code must be syntactically checked (and as far as possible, semantically checked) before any execution - that is a great help for a beginner. And the continous syntax checking while editing, done by VS, is a great help to reduce the compilation errors. So, thumbs up for compiled, strictly typed languages.
The reason I push for procedural at first is that the student needs to understand HOW the code does what it does. The single biggest problem I've seen with students who learn managed object-oriented languages first is they don't understand memory management. For a hobbiest, C# is probably the best way to go. For someone looking at a career, what C/C++ teaches you about how computers work is invaluable. It gives you a solid foundation to effectively move to more abstract languages. (Incidentally, several years ago, I had started to transition from C++ to C#, especially for one-off utilities. Then C++11 came out and resolved enough points of frustration that I went back to C++ save for one project. Except, toward the end of that one project, I encountered enough serious pain points with C# that I regretted not "porting it" to C++. This is not the first time, C# led me to the edge of a cliff and then said "adios.")
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Easy there.. that's decent learning. People stopped doing that a while ago. I don't think people have the patience for C++ anymore. At least not as a first language. I still remember trying to figure out pointers when I was 12. Good times. First time I ever yelled at a computer screen, a book, and cursed the gods.
But the thing is, ALL programming has pointers at the core, even if we pretend they are something different. (Of course, pointers in C can get very out-of-hand. If I see something like ***pointer[offset], my eyes glaze over.)
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Can't you just do C# in Visual Studio Code like a normal beginner? If you can figure out how to set up Visual Studio Code to compile, run, and debug your code, you will have gained a valuable real-world practical skill. If you get started with .NET Core 2.1 today (= the thing that runs your C# code) you'll be somewhat good at it when they reach version 3. Version 3 will introduce a bunch of UI stuff. If you time it right, you can get on that gravy train when it starts chugging. If I have to pick something from that list, do Python. But don't get bamboozled: starting with python is really easy, but it takes forever to get good at it. C# is harder to pick up, but you get good at it much faster. Also, number 2 is a raging dumpster-fire, number 3 ian't a damn programming language, and number 4 is spelled wrong. But those are just details you can safely ignore for now. We all have to start somewhere.
KBZX5000 wrote:
and debug your code
Still surprised at how many developers don't know how to effectively debug code. During my career, I've run across more than one "experienced [in years] developer who didn't know how to run a debugger and so used a form of console output and/or logs.
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Where would you recommend a beginner to start in programming? I do have a brief understanding of these languages but need help choosing which is the most skillful and practical in the real world to learn and put to use? I want to do something related solving, building, not just dealing with data. I want to see creations come to life. 1.Python 2.Php 3.HTML/CSS 4.Javaschript Which shall I choose?
One more thing about C++ or C#; being able to step through your code in a debugger is invaluable for learning and the Visual Studio debugger[s] beat all others by a very wide margin. (JetBrains makes excellent IDEs, but I haven't tried PyCharm, so perhaps it may qualify, though I still don't like python as a beginner language.)