Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in July 2018
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According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query, NOT THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE. They go through a bunch of search engines and type
+"_language_ programming"into the engine, then grab the "number of results returned". That is an ARBITRARY thing to search for. For example, on Google.com, the following results are turned:+"C# programming" ~ 7,250,000 results +"VB.NET programming" ~ 228,000 results +"C#" ~111,000,000 results +"VB.NET" ~ 24,800,000 resultsThe number of hits returned is just a number of pages that mention the search terms. That's all. The pages can be anything, including the documentation from MSDN, forum post questions, answers, complaints, "do my homework for me", resumes, job postings, ... ANYTHING. It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakQuote:
According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query,
25 Search Engines, click to see: TIOBE Programming Community Index Definition
Quote:
It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
So, read this excerpt from this page: Tiobe Index - Click To See
Quote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written. The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system.
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kmoorevs wrote:
albeit for some dubious reasons.
You mean to say it's dubious that it's redundant?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
Is this rhetorical? [Edit] Actually, I meant dubious as in questionable. For instance by the responses in this thread I should avoid VB.NET for these reasons: 0: It's possible to throw in the old 'On Error Resume Next'. :laugh: Not that I have to, but OK. 1: It's commonly used by hobbyists/beginners. 2: Someone else wrote some crappy code with it. 3: The cool kids don't use it. It's not about being cool, it's about being productive/generating $. Thanks to Dave K. for doing his own testing which clearly dispute the OP's claim as it seems the survey results are 'dubious'. I had a feeling when this thread showed up yesterday what it would turn into...at least it stirred things up a little for the weekend! :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Quote:
According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query,
25 Search Engines, click to see: TIOBE Programming Community Index Definition
Quote:
It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
So, read this excerpt from this page: Tiobe Index - Click To See
Quote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written. The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system.
georani wrote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages.
No, it's not. It's a ranking of the popularity of their search terms in web pages, NOT IN THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT IT. Their methodology DIRECTLY contradicts the statement they made about the results. Why??? Because you can go and do the searches yourself, come up with the raw data yourself, and THEN SKIP THE PART WHERE THEY MANUALLY ASSIGN ARBITRARY WEIGHTS TO THE hit() RESULTS. The raw data numbers alone will tell you a verify different story. You want a better indicator of what's in use? Go through the repositories on GitHub and compile a list of the languages used by every project. The results will be very different from what TIOBE is showing you.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
Oops, stumbled accidentally into Soapbox...no...wait a minute...where am I? Apparently, according to this list, anything vaguely related to IT is a programming language. I would like to add DCL to the list. Its been a few decades, but I'm certain its poised for a comeback :) Seriously, languages are simply tools. Any tool works fine. At the moment, I'm busy sawing a board with a screwdriver...later, I'll hammer nails with a saw :)
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Quote:
Which could be translated by search and replace into VB.NET; built on the newer VB runtime. Instead of running P-code, we now have the .NET runtime.
False! False assertion, study more, do some research, try Wikipedia. VB is an old language, VB.NET is another and newer language completely different, you cannot compile OLD VB code to .NET, but you can easily convert VB.NET code to C# code or vice versa, they have similar structure.
georani wrote:
False! False assertion, study more, do some research, try Wikipedia.
That, you should do.
georani wrote:
VB is an old language, VB.NET is another and newer language completely different, you cannot compile OLD VB code to .NET, but you can easily convert VB.NET code to C# code or vice versa, they have similar structure.
That's correct; VB.NET and C# could be translated into each other by doing search and replace. C# is just a cleaned up version of VB7. As said, they "needed" another language in the curly braces family.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
I started in .NET with VB and it was fine for picking up .NET. However I soon found that most of what I was reading about was related to C#. So I promptly learnt C# largely because there was and still is much more out there on the internet relating to C# than VB. If I have a problem I need to solve the chances are higher that I will find someone else who has hit and fixed the same issue in C#. So that's the primary reason I use C#. The secondary reasons for my using C# are - it's easier to find work requiring C# experience and at a pinch it's easier to transition from C# to VB than the other way around. As for VB being more readable - my experience with readability is generally more connected to the implementation than the language itself. That is the language is important but the way a programmer uses it is much more important when it comes to readability.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Quote:
Face it: VB is based on a language designed for people who can't code, don't want to code, and have no interest in quality. It still has those early days buried deep in it's fabric: the On Error rubbish, the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything.
False assertion, you can produce bad or good code in VB.NET or C #, the choice is yours.
Quote:
the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything.
False assertion, you just use
Option Strict On
at start of your VB.NET code. Study more, please, did you heard about Python?
VB.NET was my first language and, unfortunately, I have to agree with OG here. Yes, there is an Option Strict, but it's off by default and many programmers "forget" to turn it on. VB was created to make programming easier and as a result non-programmers started programming. And boy have I seen my share of VB code... Assigning strings to ints, coding everything directly into a single form, and, indeed, lots of GOTO's and On Error Resume Next. Because that's the way VB is by default. Yes, VB.NET can do everything C# can, and then some more. And that "more" part often isn't very good. That said, I've seen big piles of crap written in C# as well. Ultimately it boils down to the developer who uses it. VB doesn't deserve the hate it gets. I really can't believe VB.NET is more popular than C# though. I've been doing C# for a good five years now, but before that time it was almost impossible to find good tutorials or examples in VB.NET (which is why I learned C# in the first place). If I look for jobs in the Netherlands I find almost 900 jobs for "c#" and 87 for "vb" and "vb.net" combined. VB isn't even (fully) supported on many newer platforms like .NET Core and Azure... So I wonder where this popularity on TIOBE came from.
Best, Sander Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Randor wrote:
proof: PROOF
You keep misspelling "lies" ;p
Best, Sander Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query, NOT THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE. They go through a bunch of search engines and type
+"_language_ programming"into the engine, then grab the "number of results returned". That is an ARBITRARY thing to search for. For example, on Google.com, the following results are turned:+"C# programming" ~ 7,250,000 results +"VB.NET programming" ~ 228,000 results +"C#" ~111,000,000 results +"VB.NET" ~ 24,800,000 resultsThe number of hits returned is just a number of pages that mention the search terms. That's all. The pages can be anything, including the documentation from MSDN, forum post questions, answers, complaints, "do my homework for me", resumes, job postings, ... ANYTHING. It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakThanks for pointing that out :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: … as my TIOBE depression is over now … :-) . Indeed, Google trends gives a totally different picture: I did a quick comparison of C# with VB.NET and the result is astonishing because C# is waaaay more popular than VB.NET (about 5x more popular) according to this simplified metrics :-) … Therefore, it is certainly acceptable to question TIOBE representation of "popularity" … BR,
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georani wrote:
but more fun and readable to program with it.
Nurse! Quick! Here we have another one that believes his own propaganda!
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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> ...An alternative viewpoint: 14 most popular programming languages according to Stack Overflow... Stack Overflow can not measure the popularity of a language, but the difficulty of programmers to use it, the more questions, the more problematic is that language. Tiobe Index is more trustful.
While there is certainly a valid point in your statement the overall outcome is utter bs (sorry). Tiobe is really a joke benchmark especially when compared to StackOverflow. Just compare the top spot: Java? JavaScript not even in top 5 (the most used PL running on essentially all devices and platforms)? As every of these benchmarks is a lie (strongly depending on the sources, custom metrics, and attitudes of the creators) a survey across *all* developers seems to be the most reliable indicator about the *popularity* of PL.
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Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
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georani wrote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages.
No, it's not. It's a ranking of the popularity of their search terms in web pages, NOT IN THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT IT. Their methodology DIRECTLY contradicts the statement they made about the results. Why??? Because you can go and do the searches yourself, come up with the raw data yourself, and THEN SKIP THE PART WHERE THEY MANUALLY ASSIGN ARBITRARY WEIGHTS TO THE hit() RESULTS. The raw data numbers alone will tell you a verify different story. You want a better indicator of what's in use? Go through the repositories on GitHub and compile a list of the languages used by every project. The results will be very different from what TIOBE is showing you.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakYou cannot change a fanboi with logic, facts or common sense. A 4*2 will do the job though!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
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You're getting pretty desperate now...
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
It's so interesting seeing someone who doesn't really know what programming is quite about, making grand comparisons between programming tools.
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Hmmm there are some strange entries in the top 20, including VB, presumably the version that has been dead for over a decade.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
In 1981 I was told that COBOL was dead and it was a waste of time learning it (I didn't). Funny ... nearly 40 years later, COBOL is still quite alive and well. So is "classic" VB. Last year it ranked between 10th and 15th in every software survey I read. Maybe VB is dead and it's returned as a revenant?
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Quote:
Face it: VB is based on a language designed for people who can't code, don't want to code, and have no interest in quality. It still has those early days buried deep in it's fabric: the On Error rubbish, the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything.
False assertion, you can produce bad or good code in VB.NET or C #, the choice is yours.
Quote:
the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything.
False assertion, you just use
Option Strict On
at start of your VB.NET code. Study more, please, did you heard about Python?
Every time you tell a seasoned programmer to "study more" you are just sinking your own argument and, frankly, alienating the people that you're trying to puff yourself up to. The point is that good software written in VB is despite the language, not empowered by it.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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Quote:
C# is a cleaned up version of VB.
No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
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"Fun" you say. I say there's a lot of hobbyists.
There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
C# came out right after Microsoft lost the lawsuit regarding J++, their version of Java. It seemed (at the time) that C# was a repackaged J++ ... which may not be an accurate assumption. But the timing matched.
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VB.NET was my first language and, unfortunately, I have to agree with OG here. Yes, there is an Option Strict, but it's off by default and many programmers "forget" to turn it on. VB was created to make programming easier and as a result non-programmers started programming. And boy have I seen my share of VB code... Assigning strings to ints, coding everything directly into a single form, and, indeed, lots of GOTO's and On Error Resume Next. Because that's the way VB is by default. Yes, VB.NET can do everything C# can, and then some more. And that "more" part often isn't very good. That said, I've seen big piles of crap written in C# as well. Ultimately it boils down to the developer who uses it. VB doesn't deserve the hate it gets. I really can't believe VB.NET is more popular than C# though. I've been doing C# for a good five years now, but before that time it was almost impossible to find good tutorials or examples in VB.NET (which is why I learned C# in the first place). If I look for jobs in the Netherlands I find almost 900 jobs for "c#" and 87 for "vb" and "vb.net" combined. VB isn't even (fully) supported on many newer platforms like .NET Core and Azure... So I wonder where this popularity on TIOBE came from.
Best, Sander Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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In 1981 I was told that COBOL was dead and it was a waste of time learning it (I didn't). Funny ... nearly 40 years later, COBOL is still quite alive and well. So is "classic" VB. Last year it ranked between 10th and 15th in every software survey I read. Maybe VB is dead and it's returned as a revenant?
BryanFazekas wrote:
Last year it ranked between 10th and 15th in every software survey I read
There was a shit load of applications written in it, it would be interesting if the surveys identified the volume of app support, the majority I suspect. No matter how you look at it, classic VB is no longer supported and has not been for many years. Anyone STARTING a new project in it is nuts.
BryanFazekas wrote:
COBOL is still quite alive and well.
I think "well" is a bit of a stretch, even alive is only because some legacy systems are just to expensive to replace.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
