Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in July 2018
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I think some people are attracted to really cringy languages like BASIC, PHP or JS. They love the sinister hacks and awful workarounds and pat themselves on the back for their great ideas. Too bad they naver waste a thought about why nobody else does such things. That's also why I tend to stay away from anything where such a hack culture prevails.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
I don't agree; I think it has more to do with the forgiving nature of a dynamic language compiler/interpreter. In my experience (and as a teen, what was my experience) there isn't some sinister master plan on the part of the coder to torture code; they just don't have the grounding to really understand what's going on or why some approach is wrong/fragile/ill-conceived.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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BryanFazekas wrote:
Last year it ranked between 10th and 15th in every software survey I read
There was a shit load of applications written in it, it would be interesting if the surveys identified the volume of app support, the majority I suspect. No matter how you look at it, classic VB is no longer supported and has not been for many years. Anyone STARTING a new project in it is nuts.
BryanFazekas wrote:
COBOL is still quite alive and well.
I think "well" is a bit of a stretch, even alive is only because some legacy systems are just to expensive to replace.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
There was a sh*t load of applications written in it, it would be interesting if the surveys identified the volume of app support, the majority I suspect.
That's my guess as well.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
No matter how you look at it, classic VB is no longer supported and has not been for many years. Anyone STARTING a new project in it is nuts.
I agree on both points. But that's not my point -- which is the fact that a language that has been unsupported as a stand-alone product for 15+ years still ranks. I spotted VB on several lists a number of years back and was surprised -- I hadn't done VB6 since 2002-ish and assumed it was long since dead. Although VB is still supported. It's the macro language behind MS Office. My normal.dotm contains macros I wrote in Word 97. Still running as originally written, still useful today.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
I think "well" is a bit of a stretch, even alive is only because some legacy systems are just to expensive to replace.
I know a number of guys who make very good rates doing COBOL. Sure, it's not used for much new development, but a kid coming out of school today could make a career of COBOL. [I'm not recommending that; simply pointing out an option.] Every negative point in this entire topic is irrelevant if folks are making a living from a language. ;P
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I don't agree; I think it has more to do with the forgiving nature of a dynamic language compiler/interpreter. In my experience (and as a teen, what was my experience) there isn't some sinister master plan on the part of the coder to torture code; they just don't have the grounding to really understand what's going on or why some approach is wrong/fragile/ill-conceived.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Nathan Minier wrote:
In my experience (and as a teen, what was my experience) there isn't some sinister master plan on the part of the coder to torture code; they just don't have the grounding to really understand what's going on or why some approach is wrong/fragile/ill-conceived.
Yes, that's the flypaper with which they are cought. XXX is soooooo easy for beginners. The problem is that you don't stay a beginner forever and your tasks grow as well. If you don't get off the flypaper quickly, you are going to become a hack and likely stay that way forever. You don't know how much I thank my dark gods that my experience as a teen was with hey hex keyboards, machine language and a community that knew what it was doing.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Nathan Minier wrote:
In my experience (and as a teen, what was my experience) there isn't some sinister master plan on the part of the coder to torture code; they just don't have the grounding to really understand what's going on or why some approach is wrong/fragile/ill-conceived.
Yes, that's the flypaper with which they are cought. XXX is soooooo easy for beginners. The problem is that you don't stay a beginner forever and your tasks grow as well. If you don't get off the flypaper quickly, you are going to become a hack and likely stay that way forever. You don't know how much I thank my dark gods that my experience as a teen was with hey hex keyboards, machine language and a community that knew what it was doing.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
I can't fully disagree, except that while JS may be dynamic, it has a real use and is a highly effective tool in the toolbox of someone that can work with it appropriately. (Plus it's not intuitive enough to be good flypaper, which is more of a condemnation than an advertisement for a dynamic language)
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
Given the highly dubious methods used by the Totally Insipid Obliviots Bull Excrement index, I'm assuming that Google's broadened it's "close enough" language matching to bring up C# examples for VB.net searches and vice versa. (The version of this that conflates UWP, WPF, Silverblight, WP7 and WP8 together has been the bane of my recent existence since probably 1/3rd to 1/2 of the things I've been searching for are edge cases that aren't equivalent over the various flavors of XAML.)
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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For dead read unsupported which equates to dead! My development path was from Superbase to Access to VB4 to VB6 and then to VB.net and then to c# so I know precisely what I am talking about. And there are still some strange entries ia rather minor player to be up there.n the top 20. Delphi, which I also dabbled in, seems a little strange, and Mathlab, a programming language. And they split PL/SQL and SQL (presumably TSQL) seems an odd segregation. Still statistics and all that!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
SuperBase! Way ahead of its time.
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Like every other "study" it had an agenda to push the statistical results they wanted to emphasize.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Do I have your permission to use these quotes?
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Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
It's about time. Even though the shop I currently work at doesn't use it, I still think it was better at somethings than C#, but than again C# is better at other things. it's a bit of a trade off. Honestly, for years I think most VB devs searched for C# articles because that's what everyone else did, you got to be fluent in both. Pick up a graphics or the latest DotNet framework book, it was likely going to be only published in C#. One of my biggest complaints about VB.net was treating chars differently than C# did. C# treats them like an integer, as they should. So making hardware communication protocol libraries was always kind of a pain.
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Do I have your permission to use these quotes?
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georani wrote:
but more fun and readable to program with it.
Nurse! Quick! Here we have another one that believes his own propaganda!
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
To each their own. some people like Chevys some people like Fords, and other prefer Hondas. It's all personal preferences, and if it gets the job done then that's great, if it doesn't than that's when it's a problem.
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Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
About time a language with modern syntax-parsing beats out one of those C-style languages with syntax still stuck in the 70's. I mean, semicolons at the end of lines?! Why does any compiler need to be told where the end of the line is these days?! Why the need for "=" and "==" when a compiler can be written to figure it out based on the context?! Compiler design is so advanced today compared to the era these junk-syntax languages were developed in, there's no reason for keeping this legacy garbage and inventing new languages that are restricted by it.
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It's about time. Even though the shop I currently work at doesn't use it, I still think it was better at somethings than C#, but than again C# is better at other things. it's a bit of a trade off. Honestly, for years I think most VB devs searched for C# articles because that's what everyone else did, you got to be fluent in both. Pick up a graphics or the latest DotNet framework book, it was likely going to be only published in C#. One of my biggest complaints about VB.net was treating chars differently than C# did. C# treats them like an integer, as they should. So making hardware communication protocol libraries was always kind of a pain.
C# treats chars like an integer?? What happens if they're non-ASCII? What if they're unicode? Sounds to me like it's treating them wrong.
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C# treats chars like an integer?? What happens if they're non-ASCII? What if they're unicode? Sounds to me like it's treating them wrong.
It's still an integer at the end of the day. you can still: 'A'+5 to get a new value. this is not possible in VB with out using Chr() and Asc() functions. Encryption and binary messaging use this feature a lot.
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Hmmm there are some strange entries in the top 20, including VB, presumably the version that has been dead for over a decade.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
unfortunately there is a ton of old business apps out there with no plans to be completely rewritten. I personally know of a couple companies reliant on accounting software written (supported and still added to) all in VB6.
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georani wrote:
Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language
Nothing which includes
On Error Resume Next
Can be described as great, or even as a programming language.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
that was a hold over from VB6 days. when the first VB.net came out, it supported a upgrade wizard to moved VB6 to VB.Net. Way to many devs in VB6 relied on this because there was no structured error handling. They should drop support for some of the old baggage, but MS will likely keep it forever. C# was lucky as it was new and fresh and (mostly) had none of the burdens of an older sibling.
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SuperBase! Way ahead of its time.
It really was, not many would remember it though. An example of a product destroyed by better marketing.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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unfortunately there is a ton of old business apps out there with no plans to be completely rewritten. I personally know of a couple companies reliant on accounting software written (supported and still added to) all in VB6.
I know of 2 written by me :-O , they are so mature that they have not required support in years, I would have trouble supporting something so old.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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georani wrote:
but more fun and readable to program with it.
Nurse! Quick! Here we have another one that believes his own propaganda!
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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While there is certainly a valid point in your statement the overall outcome is utter bs (sorry). Tiobe is really a joke benchmark especially when compared to StackOverflow. Just compare the top spot: Java? JavaScript not even in top 5 (the most used PL running on essentially all devices and platforms)? As every of these benchmarks is a lie (strongly depending on the sources, custom metrics, and attitudes of the creators) a survey across *all* developers seems to be the most reliable indicator about the *popularity* of PL.
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Just because JavaScript is the most used doesn't mean it is popular. That's two different things. I've read many posts where people complain about JavaScript. That doesn't mean they aren't using it, though.
Da Bomb
Are we talking relative or absolute here? It makes a huge difference. Example: If, e.g., JS is used 10x as much as X and X is liked by 100% of its developers, while JS is only liked by 20% of their developers, its still twice as popular. Of course you are right, but JS *is* popular and *is* most used. There are only two kinds of programming languages: Those that aren't used and those that people complain about.
