Are we on a runaway train?
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
We are not customers anymore, we are the alpha / beta testers or directly the product. :sigh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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We are not customers anymore, we are the alpha / beta testers or directly the product. :sigh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
You should have posted this in the Lounge - perfectly acceptable and would have more viewership, with more responses, as this is a common and popular topic. Very few people hang out in the Soapbox. Just saying.
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
No, we are not on a runaway train. Frequent updates are a very good thing for obvious reasons. Not all updates are bug fixes.
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You should have posted this in the Lounge - perfectly acceptable and would have more viewership, with more responses, as this is a common and popular topic. Very few people hang out in the Soapbox. Just saying.
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Slacker007 wrote:
You should have posted this in the Lounge
Agreed! But, how would one 'move' a thread? (never tried it) :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
Well, you just pick it up and move it I guess. :laugh: Seriously, I have no idea.
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
Not all companies are rushing out alpha and beta products. Borland C++ 2001 is expected to be released sometime in 2022 feature complete with no bugs!
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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Not all companies are rushing out alpha and beta products. Borland C++ 2001 is expected to be released sometime in 2022 feature complete with no bugs!
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
I have been doing some Android development in VS2017 with Xamarin and have been frequently coming across issues where the IDE claims that references do not exist etc. The fix - delete the obj and bin folder, clean and build and that usually fixes these sorts of issues. Yes VS2017 is pretty buggy but I have so far found that as long as I am aware of the fixes(delete the bin and obj folders usually works) I can get things working.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Slacker007 wrote:
You should have posted this in the Lounge
Agreed! But, how would one 'move' a thread? (never tried it) :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Not all companies are rushing out alpha and beta products. Borland C++ 2001 is expected to be released sometime in 2022 feature complete with no bugs!
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
DRHuff wrote:
Borland C++ 2001 is expected to be released sometime in 2022
Well, it's possible. After all, Duke Nukem Forever was finally released ... and then dropped like a stone ...
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
netizenk wrote:
If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
Don't fight it; enjoy it. It means other companies are racing their products to market. Your quality should be marketed as a "unique selling point". Since you prolly keep a record of incidents reported, you would have measurements to back up that quality-claim.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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DRHuff wrote:
Borland C++ 2001 is expected to be released sometime in 2022 feature complete with no bugs!
This actually made me laugh a bit. :thumbsup:
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I've had VS 2017 on my home machine since it was released and I noticed that the updates are very frequent compared to older Visual Studio releases. I didn't really do any coding at home over the past two years, I just installed updates when prompted. At work we were stuck with VS 2015 so I didn't really get to evaluate VS 2017 much. However, earlier this week I wrote a small Windows Service with the latest VS 2017 and it just felt like an alpha product. Most basic functions would cause problems. For example, I would create a class but when I double click on it to open I would get "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" exception thrown by IDE. I would add a setting to my settings file and save but when I went back to my code the setting would not be available in IntelliSense as it would in VS 2015 and in any previous version of IDE I can remember. It would be underlined as an error but if I tried to build the solution it would build just fine. I've noticed several other quirks like that which made me feel like I was working with an unfinished product... And it's not just VS 2017, it feels like everyone is in a race to release ASAP, multiple times a year, and support any and all new technologies coming out daily resulting in suspect quality of released product. Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release? A place where there is no time to listen to and process feedback and even the core software functionality can be impacted by the pace of development? If so, is this something we should all embrace making the term "production ready" just a fuzzy phrase we can dance around or is it a trend worth fighting against?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
netizenk wrote:
Are we now basically on a runaway train without brakes where things are moving so fast that no product can be shipped that would be free of major defects and everything will be fixed in the next release?
Now? Did you work on a team product ever where that was not the case?
