Gab.com 'no-platformed', thoughts?
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
He has been spreading hateful hurtful speech for a long time
Have to admit I'm not familiar with his work, you see when I don't agree with someone I simply don't listen to what they have to say. Maybe you could give me examples of the hate speech he spreads?
Alex Jones - Wikipedia[^] Hateful speech, fear, uncertainty, and gullibility are this stock-in-trade. You can just start at the top, although his views are a little further down the page. And that's even before the "Controversies" section.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Alex Jones - Wikipedia[^] Hateful speech, fear, uncertainty, and gullibility are this stock-in-trade. You can just start at the top, although his views are a little further down the page. And that's even before the "Controversies" section.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Hateful speech, fear, uncertainty, and gullibility are this stock-in-trade.
So it won't be hard for you to give me actual examples of the kind of hate speech that is his stock-in-trade?
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
Hateful speech, fear, uncertainty, and gullibility are this stock-in-trade.
So it won't be hard for you to give me actual examples of the kind of hate speech that is his stock-in-trade?
The Wikipedia link gave you quite a list. If, for example, denying Sandy Hook Massacre occurred is hurtful to the families who lost their children, then there's no point continuing. As for the rest - the article gives a litany and I suspect Google or Bing probably work on your system as well as mine. Or just Google him, yourself, and pick anything off the list. Conversely, if you're a fan of his, what point are you trying to make?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The Wikipedia link gave you quite a list. If, for example, denying Sandy Hook Massacre occurred is hurtful to the families who lost their children, then there's no point continuing. As for the rest - the article gives a litany and I suspect Google or Bing probably work on your system as well as mine. Or just Google him, yourself, and pick anything off the list. Conversely, if you're a fan of his, what point are you trying to make?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I asked about hateful speech, not hurtful speech. So despite hate speech being his stock-in-trade you have failed to give me any examples despite being asked twice.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
what point are you trying to make?
The point I'm trying to make is that leftists label anything they don't agree with as "hate speech", and anyone who has opinions they don't agree with as a "nazi". The left use this kind of language to dehumanise and invalidate people and their opinions. An opinion being something you don't agree with doesn't make it hate speech. I consider the point well made.
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I asked about hateful speech, not hurtful speech. So despite hate speech being his stock-in-trade you have failed to give me any examples despite being asked twice.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
what point are you trying to make?
The point I'm trying to make is that leftists label anything they don't agree with as "hate speech", and anyone who has opinions they don't agree with as a "nazi". The left use this kind of language to dehumanise and invalidate people and their opinions. An opinion being something you don't agree with doesn't make it hate speech. I consider the point well made.
Or, to put things into a perspective that includes reality: The right lies easier than they breathe. When called out on it they play the "gotcha" game. You know just what he does; just what he is; and just why he his removal was long long overdue. Find another playmate for the game. I will, instead, adopt your tactic. Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Or, to put things into a perspective that includes reality: The right lies easier than they breathe. When called out on it they play the "gotcha" game. You know just what he does; just what he is; and just why he his removal was long long overdue. Find another playmate for the game. I will, instead, adopt your tactic. Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
You know just what he does;
As I said, I'm not familiar with him but from my understanding he is a crank who peddles conspiracy theories. I don't consider that hate speech though. The left call things "hate speech" as an attempt to silence them, but that doesn't make it true. Third post and still not a single example.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him
You can't prove a negative, asking me to do so is a fallacious argument.
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Or, to put things into a perspective that includes reality: The right lies easier than they breathe. When called out on it they play the "gotcha" game. You know just what he does; just what he is; and just why he his removal was long long overdue. Find another playmate for the game. I will, instead, adopt your tactic. Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him.
That one's easy. Watch every single video, and listen to every single podcast. You won't find any hate speech. That's your proof that you're wrong.
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
You know just what he does;
As I said, I'm not familiar with him but from my understanding he is a crank who peddles conspiracy theories. I don't consider that hate speech though. The left call things "hate speech" as an attempt to silence them, but that doesn't make it true. Third post and still not a single example.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him
You can't prove a negative, asking me to do so is a fallacious argument.
If you're actually curious this is probably about the worst coverage of him Is false Sandy Hook conspiracy free speech? - YouTube[^]
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
Prove that scumbag isn't accurately described as I described him.
That one's easy. Watch every single video, and listen to every single podcast. You won't find any hate speech. That's your proof that you're wrong.
The only "proof" in your post is that you wouldn't know it if you heard it.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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If you're actually curious this is probably about the worst coverage of him Is false Sandy Hook conspiracy free speech? - YouTube[^]
If that's the worst then it confirms he does not spread hate speech :)
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Redefine . . . or just start calling it what it is? When you post about committing genocide - encouraging others to begin the process - is that protected? Yes? Do you allow recruitment for the task? Just find yourself as the target and then distinctions become all too clear!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
When you post about committing genocide - encouraging others to begin the process - is that protected? Yes?
That's literally incitement and is not protected speech. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
When you post about committing genocide - encouraging others to begin the process - is that protected? Yes?
That's literally incitement and is not protected speech. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Nathan Minier wrote:
That's literally incitement and is not protected speech. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
There's a context to this entire thread - it should become clear from that.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Nathan Minier wrote:
That's literally incitement and is not protected speech. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
There's a context to this entire thread - it should become clear from that.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
That's why identifying a concept that is clearly incitement and indicating that anyone is arguing that it's protected speech struck me as a bit odd, unless you're indicating that's the argument, which is a bit insulting. A more relevant example would be something along the lines of: "There are only 2 genders." This is a statement of opinion and can be the foundation of a discussion, but is now commonly framed as hate speech and it is often suggested by the Trans community that it is an incitement to violence against them. It's really disturbing the number of people that will go to bat for that idea, as well. That's what I'm getting at: discussion is thwarted by an instant response to classify anything that you (the general "you", Balboos, not you personally) disagree with as hate speech and incitement. This is actively caustic to freedom and the exchange of ideas.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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That's why identifying a concept that is clearly incitement and indicating that anyone is arguing that it's protected speech struck me as a bit odd, unless you're indicating that's the argument, which is a bit insulting. A more relevant example would be something along the lines of: "There are only 2 genders." This is a statement of opinion and can be the foundation of a discussion, but is now commonly framed as hate speech and it is often suggested by the Trans community that it is an incitement to violence against them. It's really disturbing the number of people that will go to bat for that idea, as well. That's what I'm getting at: discussion is thwarted by an instant response to classify anything that you (the general "you", Balboos, not you personally) disagree with as hate speech and incitement. This is actively caustic to freedom and the exchange of ideas.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
The example you give, gender, is quite good. A relevant point. But - I'm thinking of something a little more absolute - as inspiring and cheering the wanton killing of random persons because they are "other" is how I frame the (original intent) of the thread. A philosophical thought that's germane: is there a measure of right and wrong? My response is 'yes' - but note, in the above, I didn't put "absolute". I think of it in terms of the "Golden Rule" - don't do to someone else what you'd not what them to do to you. The values and events that fall into that vary from culture to culture, so right and wrong vary from culture to culture - hell - from person to person. Nonetheless, if one applies aforesaid rule to their own actions they know if they're doing right or wrong. As I said - it's philosophical rather than practical as we're a communal species and end up making compromises. So - the concept of hate speech - what should be 'forbidden' speech - might well be a moving target and using it as a label to silence (or murder) opponents is a long established human custom. The basis, then, is should a platform that allows the dissemination of information provoking injury to others be able to hide behind the banner of 'enabling protected speech' and wash their hands of any responsibility for what they have enabled and deliberately chose to ignore? Whatever its original intent, which I don't pretend to know, gab.com crossed into the realm of facilitating the worst of human nature (apparently making a living from it). They couldn't be expected to intercept every post as it's submitted - but they did nothing, thereby setting themselves up as a haven not for freedom of expression but malicious incitement.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The example you give, gender, is quite good. A relevant point. But - I'm thinking of something a little more absolute - as inspiring and cheering the wanton killing of random persons because they are "other" is how I frame the (original intent) of the thread. A philosophical thought that's germane: is there a measure of right and wrong? My response is 'yes' - but note, in the above, I didn't put "absolute". I think of it in terms of the "Golden Rule" - don't do to someone else what you'd not what them to do to you. The values and events that fall into that vary from culture to culture, so right and wrong vary from culture to culture - hell - from person to person. Nonetheless, if one applies aforesaid rule to their own actions they know if they're doing right or wrong. As I said - it's philosophical rather than practical as we're a communal species and end up making compromises. So - the concept of hate speech - what should be 'forbidden' speech - might well be a moving target and using it as a label to silence (or murder) opponents is a long established human custom. The basis, then, is should a platform that allows the dissemination of information provoking injury to others be able to hide behind the banner of 'enabling protected speech' and wash their hands of any responsibility for what they have enabled and deliberately chose to ignore? Whatever its original intent, which I don't pretend to know, gab.com crossed into the realm of facilitating the worst of human nature (apparently making a living from it). They couldn't be expected to intercept every post as it's submitted - but they did nothing, thereby setting themselves up as a haven not for freedom of expression but malicious incitement.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
They couldn't be expected to intercept every post as it's submitted - but they did nothing, thereby setting themselves up as a haven not for freedom of expression but malicious incitement.
I think this is the common ground where we can agree, and I think you framed my concerns of the moving target that is civil discourse very nicely. Nice to chat with someone rather than being talked at by them :)
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor