The Concept of the human Soul is a religious concept, which has no basis in fact, and does not exist
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It is the most likely according to Occam. Just as likely as a man in the cloud that is called the spaghetti-monster. It is also not like we did not look for proof; we did, even by measuring the bodies of the deceased when dying and we found consistently nothing.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Not all, we know that printer drivers go to Silicon Hell.
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Well Folks We all write programs. The question is: where do your efforts go, when halfway through a debug, your system locks up, and, the only way out is to re-start your computer. Your efforts evaporated, and, increased the entropy of the universe. The Human brain is an incredibly complex computer, which we have not yet mastered to fully understand. It is certainly not Binary. It has it's own system of messaging and information storage. We do not (yet) understand the precise details of the How, but, we can live with the concept. That magnificent but Ill understood Computer runs a program, that gives us our self awareness, our agency to make decisions, and, outside of our awareness, runs the power plant to keep us alive, the digestive system, etc. The concept of Information Technology is relatively New. Until recently, the concept of life with agency could only be explained by means of a Divine Spark of Life, given out by a God of local choice. Furthermore, that imagined spark of life would be eternal, and, Life should should go on somewhere after the demise of the body. A Heaven or Hell, dependent on the religion one practices. The concept of an 'Hereafter' goes back thousands of years. (and as Soul that somehow lives on beyond death) Well I would state that there is no such thing as a soul. When an individual dies, ultimately the Brain is Shut Down, and the information contained therein, goes to increase the enthrophy of the universe. The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
Bram van Kampen
Soul has nothing to do with religion. Soul describes all the things we do not understand inside the human being we are, and for that it is only a word, that you can replace... It is true that over the human history the main explanations of the origin of the 'soul' came from religions and other philosophical materials, but it is still true that we have a - rather complex - part of our existence we do not understand... And no! We do not know better than a few thousands years before, what it is and what made of, and what for... As for today the most scientific explanation of the 'soul' is as good - or bad - as any, a religion came up with... The day someone will actually understand and explain it, the sticker 'Machine Learning' will turn into something real... And that one will became a deity in large parts of the world... :-)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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The concept of a soul is not just religious based. Many cultures and schools of thought look at the soul more as a person's life force. This is why AI can never be fully realized; it is missing the "life force" component. To be clear here, you don't "know" anything. I don't "know" anything either. None of us do. We all have beliefs and opinions, but none of us "know" what happens to us when we die, other than the fact that our body rots, decays, and eventually disappears. Where does that life force go? Some believe (not know) that it goes back into the overall energy of the universe, or heaven, or hell. Who knows, really?
Slacker007 wrote:
Where does that life force go?
When the body is alive it absorbs energy which staves off increasing entropy, which, to my mind, is the only possible definition of 'life force'. When it ceases to function, entropy takes over, and any residual energy is either consumed by other living things to enable them to stave off entropy, or is converted into heat. Either way, entropy, as always, wins. It is a point worthy of note that is not specifically the heat of the sun that enables life (a reversal of entropy) to exist on earth - the earth radiates as much thermal energy as it absorbs - clearly so, as otherwise the planet would get hotter and hotter. What enables entropy-defying life is the residual energy from the earth's radiated energy being at a lower frequency than the received energy from the sun.
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Soul has nothing to do with religion. Soul describes all the things we do not understand inside the human being we are, and for that it is only a word, that you can replace... It is true that over the human history the main explanations of the origin of the 'soul' came from religions and other philosophical materials, but it is still true that we have a - rather complex - part of our existence we do not understand... And no! We do not know better than a few thousands years before, what it is and what made of, and what for... As for today the most scientific explanation of the 'soul' is as good - or bad - as any, a religion came up with... The day someone will actually understand and explain it, the sticker 'Machine Learning' will turn into something real... And that one will became a deity in large parts of the world... :-)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
And that one will became a deity in large parts of the world...
until...
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
the sticker 'Machine Learning' will turn into something real.
then we will have a big problem
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Soul has nothing to do with religion. Soul describes all the things we do not understand inside the human being we are, and for that it is only a word, that you can replace... It is true that over the human history the main explanations of the origin of the 'soul' came from religions and other philosophical materials, but it is still true that we have a - rather complex - part of our existence we do not understand... And no! We do not know better than a few thousands years before, what it is and what made of, and what for... As for today the most scientific explanation of the 'soul' is as good - or bad - as any, a religion came up with... The day someone will actually understand and explain it, the sticker 'Machine Learning' will turn into something real... And that one will became a deity in large parts of the world... :-)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
It is true that over the human history the main explanations of the origin of the 'soul' came from religions and other philosophical materials, but it is still true that we have a - rather complex - part of our existence we do not understand...
There's no need to make up a story to fill the gaps. After dissecting, we never found a soul. When studying bacteria, we did not find a soul. It has as much chance at existing in your body as a nuclear fission-reactor existing in your body, and equal the amount of proof.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Well Folks We all write programs. The question is: where do your efforts go, when halfway through a debug, your system locks up, and, the only way out is to re-start your computer. Your efforts evaporated, and, increased the entropy of the universe. The Human brain is an incredibly complex computer, which we have not yet mastered to fully understand. It is certainly not Binary. It has it's own system of messaging and information storage. We do not (yet) understand the precise details of the How, but, we can live with the concept. That magnificent but Ill understood Computer runs a program, that gives us our self awareness, our agency to make decisions, and, outside of our awareness, runs the power plant to keep us alive, the digestive system, etc. The concept of Information Technology is relatively New. Until recently, the concept of life with agency could only be explained by means of a Divine Spark of Life, given out by a God of local choice. Furthermore, that imagined spark of life would be eternal, and, Life should should go on somewhere after the demise of the body. A Heaven or Hell, dependent on the religion one practices. The concept of an 'Hereafter' goes back thousands of years. (and as Soul that somehow lives on beyond death) Well I would state that there is no such thing as a soul. When an individual dies, ultimately the Brain is Shut Down, and the information contained therein, goes to increase the enthrophy of the universe. The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist.
What a grim look on life. :thumbsdown: :sigh:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
it has to do with Knowing.
And I know that there is more after this life.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Well Folks We all write programs. The question is: where do your efforts go, when halfway through a debug, your system locks up, and, the only way out is to re-start your computer. Your efforts evaporated, and, increased the entropy of the universe. The Human brain is an incredibly complex computer, which we have not yet mastered to fully understand. It is certainly not Binary. It has it's own system of messaging and information storage. We do not (yet) understand the precise details of the How, but, we can live with the concept. That magnificent but Ill understood Computer runs a program, that gives us our self awareness, our agency to make decisions, and, outside of our awareness, runs the power plant to keep us alive, the digestive system, etc. The concept of Information Technology is relatively New. Until recently, the concept of life with agency could only be explained by means of a Divine Spark of Life, given out by a God of local choice. Furthermore, that imagined spark of life would be eternal, and, Life should should go on somewhere after the demise of the body. A Heaven or Hell, dependent on the religion one practices. The concept of an 'Hereafter' goes back thousands of years. (and as Soul that somehow lives on beyond death) Well I would state that there is no such thing as a soul. When an individual dies, ultimately the Brain is Shut Down, and the information contained therein, goes to increase the enthrophy of the universe. The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Nathan Minier wrote:
faith and science
Ironically, you have faith in science. :-D Faith is believing in something that can't be seen. You believe what science teaches you without actually verifying the results yourself, which means you are taking their word for it on faith. We ALL use faith every day in all that we do. It's not a bad thing nor just a religious thing.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Nathan Minier wrote:
faith and science
Ironically, you have faith in science. :-D Faith is believing in something that can't be seen. You believe what science teaches you without actually verifying the results yourself, which means you are taking their word for it on faith. We ALL use faith every day in all that we do. It's not a bad thing nor just a religious thing.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
Ironically, you have faith in science. :-D Faith is believing in something that can't be seen. You believe what science teaches you without actually verifying the results yourself, which means you are taking their word for it on faith.
No, we rely on other scientists to validate the claims. Not by looking, but by measuring. With unbiased tools. Science does not require any belief at all, and you can verify and dispute every claim made.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Not all, we know that printer drivers go to Silicon Hell.
You mean this? [Office Space - Printer Scene (UNCENSORED) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wsjroVlu8) :)
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Well Folks We all write programs. The question is: where do your efforts go, when halfway through a debug, your system locks up, and, the only way out is to re-start your computer. Your efforts evaporated, and, increased the entropy of the universe. The Human brain is an incredibly complex computer, which we have not yet mastered to fully understand. It is certainly not Binary. It has it's own system of messaging and information storage. We do not (yet) understand the precise details of the How, but, we can live with the concept. That magnificent but Ill understood Computer runs a program, that gives us our self awareness, our agency to make decisions, and, outside of our awareness, runs the power plant to keep us alive, the digestive system, etc. The concept of Information Technology is relatively New. Until recently, the concept of life with agency could only be explained by means of a Divine Spark of Life, given out by a God of local choice. Furthermore, that imagined spark of life would be eternal, and, Life should should go on somewhere after the demise of the body. A Heaven or Hell, dependent on the religion one practices. The concept of an 'Hereafter' goes back thousands of years. (and as Soul that somehow lives on beyond death) Well I would state that there is no such thing as a soul. When an individual dies, ultimately the Brain is Shut Down, and the information contained therein, goes to increase the enthrophy of the universe. The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
Bram van Kampen
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Ironically, you have faith in science. :-D Faith is believing in something that can't be seen. You believe what science teaches you without actually verifying the results yourself, which means you are taking their word for it on faith.
No, we rely on other scientists to validate the claims. Not by looking, but by measuring. With unbiased tools. Science does not require any belief at all, and you can verify and dispute every claim made.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
we rely on other scientists to validate the claims. Not by looking, but by measuring. With unbiased tools.
Correct. And then you have faith that they did it correctly.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
With unbiased tools.
Global warming. Wine. Eggs. Ice ages. :laugh:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
we rely on other scientists to validate the claims. Not by looking, but by measuring. With unbiased tools.
Correct. And then you have faith that they did it correctly.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
With unbiased tools.
Global warming. Wine. Eggs. Ice ages. :laugh:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
Correct. And then you have faith that they did it correctly.
No, I don't. And "they" are not a bound group, it includes us.
ZurdoDev wrote:
Global warming. Wine. Eggs. Ice ages. :laugh:
Angels, prayers, unicorns; "superstition".
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Correct. And then you have faith that they did it correctly.
No, I don't. And "they" are not a bound group, it includes us.
ZurdoDev wrote:
Global warming. Wine. Eggs. Ice ages. :laugh:
Angels, prayers, unicorns; "superstition".
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
No, I don'
Then what would you call it?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Falsify this: [Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds\_interpretation) (I have ten other fundamental theories after you finish with this one) :)
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
No, I don'
Then what would you call it?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
Then what would you call it?
I don't call it anything; you labelled it "faith", which I have explained is not required. That is one reason why kids do "science" experiments in school; to show them that they get the same result, independent of their beliefs, religions or convictions.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Then what would you call it?
I don't call it anything; you labelled it "faith", which I have explained is not required. That is one reason why kids do "science" experiments in school; to show them that they get the same result, independent of their beliefs, religions or convictions.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
I don't call it anything
Interesting.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
to show them that they get the same result, independent of their beliefs, religions or convictions.
Obviously. But you believe in plenty of scientific statements without having tested them yourself.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
