Intervention: Coding Guidelines
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all true, and yet the unsensible is perhaps underrated. some of the most inspirational bouts of coding I've had have left me with something I couldn't understand later. not that I appreciate that entirely. it is what it is. but yeah, I at least try to make the function names clean if it comes down to that. plus, have you ever noticed how sometimes, code as it matures can get a bunch of weird forks in its codepath to handle one-offs and bugs, sometimes in other systems its interacting with, and so the simplest, cleanest solution doesn't work in the real world. The truth is, I distrust all of this. It makes me uneasy. But it's a reality. The best one can hope for in those situations is to keep the interfaces as clean as possible, comment what you can, especially the corner cases, and wave a dead chicken over the whole thing. And that's perhaps where software breaks from engineering into art. =)
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
codewitch honey crisis wrote:
some of the most inspirational bouts of coding I've had have left me with something I couldn't understand later.
Let me tell you about a closely guarded secret: comments! Orders of magnitude more valuable than wasting mind and body on some OCD organization of symbol and function names. Rule-makers aren't sitting with you seeing the problems you need to solve. If you've ever built a database then you may have come to a time where normalization just isn't the best choice - you break it in a strategic spot for simplicity and efficient execution. The basic rule of thumb: do it the best way you can.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I lived in a socialist society and thats my feeling about. Owning means of production is not really essential in socialism, because there arent any profits from it. It brings only responsibilities to maintenance it. X|
Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany
that's the def of socialism but whatever. i'm not having this convo with you on a programming board. seriously.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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codewitch honey crisis wrote:
some of the most inspirational bouts of coding I've had have left me with something I couldn't understand later.
Let me tell you about a closely guarded secret: comments! Orders of magnitude more valuable than wasting mind and body on some OCD organization of symbol and function names. Rule-makers aren't sitting with you seeing the problems you need to solve. If you've ever built a database then you may have come to a time where normalization just isn't the best choice - you break it in a strategic spot for simplicity and efficient execution. The basic rule of thumb: do it the best way you can.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
comments are cool, but have you ever implemented an algorithm before you understood it? how do you comment that effectively? for me, what happens is, I code it to learn it. Maybe over the course of weeks, months, even years, depending on what it is I'll refactor or even rewrite as I understand the problem domain better. As I do those refactors and rewrites I can and do add comments. Maybe it's because I think visually so my process to translate algo to code is weird or something, but I'm sure I can't be the only one who does this.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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that's the def of socialism but whatever. i'm not having this convo with you on a programming board. seriously.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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Coding standards are like religion. It's fine to have one, but please don't force yours on me. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Well played Ravi.
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Halp! I've become a slave to naming and style guidelines. Years of C++ development and years of development prior to advanced compilers and syntax highlighting and intellisense and doc-comments and all of that made me a fascist about it. To the point where I judge people for not following, say, MS naming and style guidelines for .NET when building C# apps. To the point where I usually kick myself for not putting constants before vars in equality comparisons if(0==foo), etc. I already smoke pot (it's legal here) so how do I loosen up? Y'all don't need my judgment. Nor do any fellow devs. And I need to be able to use other people's code without feeling a little sick about it, or wanting to refactor it before I touch it. I'm half serious about this post.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
Honey I shrunk the code :omg:
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Honey I shrunk the code :omg:
I wish short code was also fast code. Why is it almost never that way? I'm lazy.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I wish short code was also fast code. Why is it almost never that way? I'm lazy.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
You said it ;) It's all too easy too write reams of code that is almost unmaintainable, in the end readability is more important than performance I think, that way less bugs will be introduced.
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I like standards. I'm button-down that way.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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Shouldn't your user name be in Title Case?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
haha
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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You said it ;) It's all too easy too write reams of code that is almost unmaintainable, in the end readability is more important than performance I think, that way less bugs will be introduced.
I totally agree. I forget who, but someone said that design patterns are just a reflection of the limitations of a language. In other words, patterns should be able to be replaced by keywords, basically, that do the patterns. In general, I think this speaks to the broader point we were on. Let the language do the heavy lifting. I just wish it did more sometimes. I don't often admit this in polite company, but I'm a fan of pure visual languages like FlowStone. They I think, do a really good job of encapsulating a lot of patterns.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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The problem with coding style guides is that they try to put everything in it. Just start creating one with only a few guidelines that are easily enforceable.
I'd rather be phishing!
The style guidelines for my group are a little over one page in length, and are mostly naming conventions. I can summarize them as follows:
- Names should not rely on tribal knowledge for interpretation (use whole words).
- Non-local names should use Pascal or camel case.
- Local names should be in lower case.
- If it's public, capitalize the name.
- If it's private/protected, prefix the name with an underscore.
- Acronyms embedded in a name should be prefixed and/or suffixed by an underscore to ensure the acronym is readable.
- Hungarian notation is strongly discouraged.
- Above all, BE CONSISTENT.
We don't prescribe brace style or other formatting (e.g. tabs), source organization, language features, or most of the other things that people argue about.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
It's a Catch-22 requirement. The rule is to help people who are unaware of the problem it is intended to solve. As soon as you are aware of the problem, you don't need the rule. As soon as you know the rule, you are aware of the problem so are unlikely to fall foul of it.
Plus, any self-respecting compiler released in the last 20 years issues a warning for "assignment in conditional expression".
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Halp! I've become a slave to naming and style guidelines. Years of C++ development and years of development prior to advanced compilers and syntax highlighting and intellisense and doc-comments and all of that made me a fascist about it. To the point where I judge people for not following, say, MS naming and style guidelines for .NET when building C# apps. To the point where I usually kick myself for not putting constants before vars in equality comparisons if(0==foo), etc. I already smoke pot (it's legal here) so how do I loosen up? Y'all don't need my judgment. Nor do any fellow devs. And I need to be able to use other people's code without feeling a little sick about it, or wanting to refactor it before I touch it. I'm half serious about this post.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
I have my own style and coding guidlines, but the determining factor of what I do at work is based on a) Does the company have coding/style guidelines? b) If a is false, I use the style/coding practices of the file I'm editing, and c) try to use the same coding/style as other files in the project in new files i create. Other than that, I try to only have one return point in a method, I declare and ini5t vars at the top of methods or scoped control blocks, try never to use "var" as a variable's type. keep methods within the scope that the method name infers, and I put class components in the order fields, properties, constructors, destructors, and then methods. Ialso put intellisense comments on every method and property. I'm also not shy at all about writinmg copious comments. There are other things, but you get the idea.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I totally agree. I forget who, but someone said that design patterns are just a reflection of the limitations of a language. In other words, patterns should be able to be replaced by keywords, basically, that do the patterns. In general, I think this speaks to the broader point we were on. Let the language do the heavy lifting. I just wish it did more sometimes. I don't often admit this in polite company, but I'm a fan of pure visual languages like FlowStone. They I think, do a really good job of encapsulating a lot of patterns.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
I have heard about the Ballerina visual language, but never tried it: Ballerina.io[^] Maybe when I'm retired and have the time for it :-\
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I find coding styles to be like handwriting. When you've read enough code written by others, you'll find that you can read any style - as long as the writers followed it consistently. Life is too short to refactor everything into your preferred style.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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comments are cool, but have you ever implemented an algorithm before you understood it? how do you comment that effectively? for me, what happens is, I code it to learn it. Maybe over the course of weeks, months, even years, depending on what it is I'll refactor or even rewrite as I understand the problem domain better. As I do those refactors and rewrites I can and do add comments. Maybe it's because I think visually so my process to translate algo to code is weird or something, but I'm sure I can't be the only one who does this.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
codewitch honey crisis wrote:
comments are cool, but have you ever implemented an algorithm before you understood it?
This can be taken two ways:
- You're just translating equations to code and are otherwise clueless about its worth
- You're not an expert in the algorithm
Decades ago I translated 4th order runge kutta fit into FORTRAN. As I translated the equations to code I had some idea what it was doing but not really very well. Nonetheless, I could still comment whatever wasn't the most obvious coding translation, or where I twisted it around a bit so it was more efficient. What variables I passed as Globals on one end and where they came from on the other. Comments can be improved as you understand or just learn to code better.
codewitch honey crisis wrote:
but I'm sure I can't be the only one who does this.
True - OCD is not a single degree of behavior. It has a smooth implementation. I, for example, really like my curly-braces to be the way I like them (which visually sets off the code blocks as my eyes prefer it). On the other hand, in SQL, I use recid as my identity column. My 'boss' uses rec_id. Our data is very intimately integrated. As Kurt Vonnegut would say: "So it goes." Besides, we can tell each other's tables apart. We also pick up things from one another - change styles and methods if we decide another is better. No one's ever thought to set up rules for the column names. In fact - I'll use some spin and argue it's better this way: since nothing is an absolute 'given', we're required to pay attention to what we're looking at. Probably saves a lot of profanity down the line.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I am just trying to let go of some of my uptightness around the standards of others. =) We agree. I mean in principle. Intellectually speaking, but my heart isn't there yet.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
Don't want to sound philosophical, but a couple of years ago I experienced a back injury that made it impossible to sit or walk normally for 3 months, which meant I couldn't do what I love doing most - i.e. writing code and building software. During that time I was forced to work from home (standing up, with much difficulty) and participate in meetings remotely. It was during those meetings, many of which included animated discussions (and strong feelings) about coding standards, unit testing and other software development related processes, that I realized what was really important. Yes, of course, I'm talking about one's health. It seems as if I had to experience that injury in order to get my priorities right. I'm still (very) passionate about my craft, but I seemed to have grown a large pair of ears. Today, I tend to be much more sensitive to other people's opinions than ever before. My only regret is, I wish I'd come to this realization earlier. I would've learned so much more from my (much smarter) colleagues. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I have my own style and coding guidlines, but the determining factor of what I do at work is based on a) Does the company have coding/style guidelines? b) If a is false, I use the style/coding practices of the file I'm editing, and c) try to use the same coding/style as other files in the project in new files i create. Other than that, I try to only have one return point in a method, I declare and ini5t vars at the top of methods or scoped control blocks, try never to use "var" as a variable's type. keep methods within the scope that the method name infers, and I put class components in the order fields, properties, constructors, destructors, and then methods. Ialso put intellisense comments on every method and property. I'm also not shy at all about writinmg copious comments. There are other things, but you get the idea.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013lol i use var as much as possible. in fact, i had to build the habit. if C# had proper typedefs (using doesn't count) then I probably wouldn't, but i use generics a lot
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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The style guidelines for my group are a little over one page in length, and are mostly naming conventions. I can summarize them as follows:
- Names should not rely on tribal knowledge for interpretation (use whole words).
- Non-local names should use Pascal or camel case.
- Local names should be in lower case.
- If it's public, capitalize the name.
- If it's private/protected, prefix the name with an underscore.
- Acronyms embedded in a name should be prefixed and/or suffixed by an underscore to ensure the acronym is readable.
- Hungarian notation is strongly discouraged.
- Above all, BE CONSISTENT.
We don't prescribe brace style or other formatting (e.g. tabs), source organization, language features, or most of the other things that people argue about.
Software Zen:
delete this;Nothing should ever be camelCase. X|